FSDreamTeam CYVR CTDs

I flew out of and in to FSDT CYVR more than anyplace else since it came out until the day FSimStudios released theirs. I can’t recall a crash to desktop there. Granted I’ve had some random ones on occasion, so it’s possible I’ve crashed using that scenery, but I sure don’t recall it happening twice. But I don’t use AI or ATC much.

FSimStudios CYVR is excellent and only around $11. If flying in/out of CYVR is important to you, especially if you are crashing, spend the money!

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Quoting the last user report about the supposed “FSDT crash” at CYVR:

http://www.fsdreamteam.com/forum/index.php/topic,24377.msg165642.html#msg165642

In my experience the CTDs are definitely caused by ai livery addons. I also had CTDs at CYVR not only with FSDT CYVR, but also a competitors payware of CYVR. For both payware versions of CYVR the CTDs happened approximately 5 miles away from CYVR on any approach. Deleting the ai livery addons fixed the CTDs for both payware versions of the CYVR airports.

So yes, as I always knew, it IS an AI problem, clearly proven by the above post so, it’s neither scenery fault, since it can happen with BOTH products.

The issue is, AI change depending on time and day so, you might easily mislead thinking “I changed scenery and fixed the CTD”, just because you were trying at different times, so the “bad” AI wasn’t there.

Brought this scenery yesterday and yep CTD after CTD. So if it is a livery on ai issue is there a fix pending?

If not how do I go about a refund through the marketplace as having to remove my other stuff just to get something to work is ridiculous especially as it seems one of the problem liveries was my Air Canada one!!:see_no_evil:

I don’t have their CYVR but getting ctds all the time with KORD.It crashes just right on the loading screen!

I think you should read the rest of the feed before posting. We clearly state the answers from the forums are just misleading excuses from their side. I’ve tried this addon on a clean install with only that airport installed, same day, same time, same conditions, it still CTD. Maybe it is a disagreement between AI and the FSTD CYVR, but it’s still the only airport that crashes, meaning the error is on their side. I’m a game developer, so I think I am qualified to make this statement, but do let me know if you know something I don’t.
Cheers!

So if it is a livery on ai issue is there a fix pending?

I thought it was abundantly clear that, precisely because it’s caused by some AI, nobody can expect a “fix” coming from the scenery.

You mean you tested this, and found you had an Air Canada AI that caused the crash ? If yes, why you would expect a fix coming in the scenery, unless you suggest we remove all “ACA” codes from the airport ? Do you think banning Air Canada at CYVR it’s a sensible solution ?

As you can see on the thread I linked on our forum, users confirmed the AI can make crash the other CYVR scenery and, as you can see from the post below, another user is saying KORD is crashing for him, which of course it’s another AI problem (a bad AI can obviously made crash every scenery it appears on )

So, the “thing” that is causing to “remove your other stuff” here is the AI itself! Of course, you cannot ask a refund for freeware stuff that cause a problem to a scenery that otherwise works perfectly, but if users keep approaching the problem backwards, asking refunds or putting the blame on the wrong product, the REAL problem won’t ever be found and fixed, which of course should be done by those who made the faulty AI.

We had lots of issues caused by conflicts introduced by freeware sceneries, case in point the missing buildings, which were caused by tons of freeware sceneries using the SCENERY\GLOBAL\SCENERY\MODELLIB.BGL file like the SDK example, which has been later found to be a CONFLICT, confirmed by Asobo, which I try to explain fully in this post here:

Maybe there’s something similar in the handling of liveries. I think everybody should remember what the latest hotfix was about: the huge stuttering in multiplayer caused by OTHER users having many GB of AI liveries you might not have. That’s how sensitive the sim is to having lots of liveries, it’s likely a single one with a problem might cause issues when you least expect it.

The answers on our forum as not just “our” answers, are not “misleading” and are not obviously “excuses”

The thread ended after some users (not us! ) finally reported:

  • they solved all their crashes at CYVR by removing AI

  • they bought another CYVR scenery from another developer, and got crashes back

  • they removed the AI and fixed the crashes at the other CYVR

Clearly proving, both sceneries didn’t had any part in causing the crash. It was AI all along.

I’ve tried this addon on a clean install with only that airport installed, same day, same time, same conditions, it still CTD.

And that’s precisely why, I posted a 20 minutes long video, trying to replicate the same conditions reported by an user that had crashes after a few minutes:

This video proves:

  • We don’t post “excuses”. We took every report very seriously.

  • The crash doesn’t happen on a really clean installation

Most users reports crashes after 4-5 minutes. This is perfectly consistent with the progressive entry of AI planes in the “bubble”. If it was a scenery problem, it should have happened immediately.

Maybe it is a disagreement between AI and the FSTD CYVR, but it’s still the only airport that crashes, meaning the error is on their side

Which is why, I posted a report from an user of our forum who said he got the same crashes with another CYVR scenery, and said he fixed the crashes on both sceneries by removing his AI.

I bought the other version of CYVR and haven’t had a single CTD since then, flying 2-3 times a day daily from CYVR for a month +. Also I’ve tried and spend over an hour on the other CYVR addon just at the gate, no problems. EVERY time I use the FSDT CYVR it crashes in the first 10-20 min.
Looks like you’re the rude guy from the forums we’re talking about, so I really want to ask you: being that your “prove” differs so far from everyone else’s but the few guys you keep quoting and your video, what other theories can you think about? (sounds patronizing, but asking seriously) As my sim ONLY crashes on FSDT CYVR even with a clean install.
Looks like 1 video is enough prove to you, so do let me know if you want a video of what I’m talking about to show you your product is faulty.

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Which is why, I clearly explained why you might not get a crash, because you might have flew at different times, and the other scenery might have a different airline codes assignment, which might result in the bad AI never arriving.

If this is your experience, I don’t doubt it but, again, while should you ignore another user reports that said even the other scenery of the same airport can also crash with AI, and can also saved from crashes by disabling AI ?

Looks like 1 video is enough prove to you, so do let me know if you want a video of what I’m talking about to show you your product is faulty.

This is wrong on so many accounts.

  • A video proving there’s no crash does prove the product doesn’t crash so, it’s NOT “faulty”, because if it really was, it should crash every time, regardless of the configuration or OTHER add-ons.

  • A video showing the simulator crashes there, doesn’t prove anything and doesn’t prove which product it’s at fault, it only proves a problem happening on a certain configuration and combination of add-on, but nothing proves who’s at fault.

I really want to ask you: being that your “prove” differs so far from everyone else’s but the few guys you keep quoting and your video, what other theories can you think about?

My prove is not different than “everyone else’s”. LOTS of users already confirmed they were able to fix all crashes by removing AI, it’s just that not everybody might be ok with that, because it’s surely easier to get rid of a scenery than removing GB of AI or trying to find which one is the bad one.

As my sim ONLY crashes on FSDT CYVR even with a clean install.

Let’s take last week HOTFIX as an example:

Even on a CLEAN install, if you had Live Traffic (with other human players ) enabled, and you happened to have on the same server other users with TONS of AI liveries installed, the simulator started stuttering heavily, with long pauses of 1 seconds, making it completely unusable. Because the sim had issues trying to find liveries the other user had, but you didn’t, because you had a “clean” install. This was fixed in the latest Hotfix.

Do you think it might be unreasonable that something similar might happening here, a livery from another user you don’t have (because you have a “clean install” ) might cause issues at CYVR, but not elsewhere, because of the airline codes used ? It’s not as if we used strange codes: we used the codes for airlines that lands there.

Wow just wow. Your customer service just stinks! Just look at what you have written! I expect a fix as other developers do not have a problem with their work. So why do you. Other developers value their customers and ensure compatability with their products. So how come you can’t?

Oh and funny how you bring up the hotifx. Because that was Microsoft addressing an issue caused by the liveries. They didn’t sit there like you and say “oh it’s not our fault!”

I will now never buy a product from you again and will be submitting a complaint to Microsoft. So you can take your atitude and do one!!

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I thought the reason for posting about the hotfix was to point out that those that should fix a crash are those that can fix the crash, but it seem you didn’t get it.

I could easily say something like “we’ll investigate this and release a fix as soon as we can find something”, which might appear our customer service to be “better” but, the issue is, we can’t fix it, both because we cannot reproduce it, but also because a problem in an airport that is NOT logged when compiling the scenery it’s almost invariably caused by something which is supposed to be allowed by the SDK, but the simulator is not supporting due to some problem ( hence my examples about the various hotfixes ), so only Asobo can really fix that, which they did so many times.

Note that, the scenery came out in October, it’s sold on the MS Marketplace, it got a couple of updates too, and it was always approved by the MS Marketplace team, and while they not usually judge something based on artistic merit, they surely test for crashes.

It is possible that, some update to the sim that might have happened after the scenery was last approved might have broken some things in some cases but, I don’t think is feasible or expected to re-send ALL sceneries for approval again, each time new simulator version comes out. Because, exactly as you said “Other developers value their customers and ensure compatibility with their products”, in this case it should be Microsoft/Asobo that should ensure compatibility with already released products when a sim updates comes out.

Enough buck passing already. The reality is my liveries work fine except at your CYVR. My planes work except at your CYVR. My sim doesnt crash except at your CYVR. Can you see what the common denominator in all this is.

Something in YOUR code is proving an issue as I don’t get this elsewhere. If I did then you would have a point but I dont.

Which is why, I posted a message from another user, saying the crash happened on another CYVR too, and was fixed by removing AI even with that scenery:

http://www.fsdreamteam.com/forum/index.php/topic,24377.msg165642.html#msg165642

In my experience the CTDs are definitely caused by ai livery addons. I also had CTDs at CYVR not only with FSDT CYVR, but also a competitors payware of CYVR. For both payware versions of CYVR the CTDs happened approximately 5 miles away from CYVR on any approach. Deleting the ai livery addons fixed the CTDs for both payware versions of the CYVR airports.

I don’t see why I should consider this user report less valuable, considering he made a very convincing argument about the problem being possibly related to AI, which is 100% compatible with the fact those reported it all said it doesn’t happen immediately, but only after 5-10 minutes, which is very telling, since it’s usually the amount of time it takes for the airport to be filled with AI.

Don’t you think if the scenery really had something wrong, it would have crashed immediately ? It’s not as if we delay-load anything, it’s not even possible to do that without extra software, which we don’t use so, it must be related to something created by the sim after a while, either AI or some Ground vehicles.

I see you’re having trouble dealing with criticism, so let me just tell you the solution. You’ve stated before you already know the airline gate coding is what is having a disagreement with the AI, so can’t you just disable airline coding for now? There’s not even enough liveries and models for that to even make a difference right now.
Hope at least they are paying you good for you to pull this tantrums with clients, because the only thing you’ve achieved is that I, as many others, ended up buying another developers product and at least I wont be buying another FSDT product again.

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Sorry to barge in.Is that what’s also causing KORD to CTD?
Incredibly I have been trying to fix since yesterday but its the only airport causing CTD.

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My scenery IS crashing immediately. Doesn’t even make it past the loading screen!

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Same here with me with KORD.What a mess and I have not gotten any proper help from this dev! I removed it and will install back the PM Deluxe version.What a shame it was better than the handcrafted KORD now useless!

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Sure, that’s a possible solution for the short term, but of course the proper solution would be either the AI themselves being fixed, or (even better) having the simulator be more robust to deal with these cases.

What scenery, CYVR or KORD ?

Because, if it’s CYVR, you are the first ever reporting it.

If it’s KORD, it must have happened right now the latest hotfix, since NOBODY ever reported ANY problems at KORD since September 2020, when it came out, they started popping out in the past couple of days.

But of course, as I’ve said already, there are PLENTY of CTD coming from so many different airports, it’s enough to check THIS forum in the past days, you can see reports about crashes at:

LHBP
EDDM
KLCK
LFOU
EGLF
WSSS

All happening very recently. So, clearly, something’s going on, and it’s NOT “just us” so, please, for the last time, stop saying “your is the only airport that crashes”, because even if it might be in your case, it’s clearly not the same for everybody, which seems to indicate something more serious is happening with the sim itself.

Of course, I checked KORD because ( again ), NOBODY ever had a problem with it and, again, I couldn’t reproduce it and ( again ) made a video about that:

But please, DO NOT discuss about KORD here. This was supposed to be about CYVR. If you have something to say about KORD, do it in the other thread.

An update for both CYVR and KORD with no AI parking codes is out now, on the FSDT Live Update for everyone affected to test.

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