FSLiveTraffic Liveries (FSLTL) - AIG ban and Contribution

[Abriael]

@AdvancedGrain30

Maybe I’m dense, but what is the difference it I do the same thing manually or use software to do it? How does that make the software bad?

The issue is explicitly mentioning the lack of requirement for permission for using other people’s work as a bullet point to promote your software, and then getting bent all out of shape about permissions.

Again, it’s fine if you’re happy to accept it because it saves you time, but the hypocrisy certainly isn’t lost on me.

Of course, this doesn’t even go into the fact that FSLTL does literally the same thing. I haven’t seen any indication anywhere that they plan to host any livery or model. As a matter of fact, I’ve seen plenty of mentions that they don’t.

[SofieGrozovski]

@oTLRo, @Kaiii3 , please confirm or deny. I believe we have some misunderstanding here.

[oTLRo]

Yes any download initiated by the user locally on their machine is fine as pointed out above.

What we don’t give permission for is for any of the works listed in the email sent to you to be hosted anywhere or repackaged/modified so as long as that isn’t happening, all good?

Thanks

[SofieGrozovski]

@oTLRo Thank you, it’s clear now we just had a very unpleasant misunderstanding. How do you think, what will be best, edit this post or close the topic and create a new one?

[Abriael]

@SofieGrozovski

Ok, @oTLRo, thank you for the clarification.

I assume any work by artists mentioned in the mail still can’t be used if it is injected the same method as OCI, that doesn’t require a permission as stated by @Kaiii3? Whiteout hosting or modification?

EDIT: I have to remind that FSLTL installer is an automated tool, just like others, which requires old regular FLAi installation on the end user machine, so FSLTL never had plans to host AIG liveries, or any liveries. And this was stated months ago, plenty of links are available for the proof.

@oTLRo

Yes any download initiated by the user locally on their machine is fine as pointed out above.

What we don’t give permission for is for any of the works listed in the email sent to you to be hosted anywhere or repackaged/modified so as long as that isn’t happening, all good?

Thanks

Folks, since everyone here is using legal technicalities to essentially use other people’s work, would it hurt you all so badly to just work together and save everyone’s time and effort?

Your software isn’t even in direct competition. As I understand, FSLTL uses Asobo’s live AI, while Alpha India is an offline AI solution.

I hate to be that guy (who uses logic), but working together would benefit everyone, and people would have a choice between two very different solutions according to what they care to have.

[AbrahamGR2808]

In my opinion, this type of discussion disappears when a new “creator” appears on the action map. And there are. People who are somewhat more flexible and whose only interest is that those of us who are enjoying the world of simulation can play with better options.
Fantasy is the ideal word for those who are working for a simulator. Those who charge money (many) and those who do not charge (many more). All with the same desire for things to HAPPEN.
So I’m really glad that FTLAI is contributing to that and that many more designers are being born right now that will eclipse AIG’s egos.
I know.

[Kitty73732747]

Actually, they made a video of their own use ,cwhich is completely legal. Also, didn’t they ask months ago, before videos?

Why the delay?

What’s ironic is it seems you are critical of them, but atleast they asked. I think Most freeware developers wouldn’t even do that. Something to think about.

In any case good luck with your project, I hope it is free and you aren’t capitalising on the airliner marketing. In any case, I certainly won’t be paying you .

[oTLRo]

Maybe a new topic would be good to reset the discussion, and everyone can be a bit more positive about AI going forward

[SofieGrozovski]

@AbrahamGR2808, @Kitty73732747

Please, stay civil. We had a misunderstanding and we happily resolved it. Everything will be fine.

[NormalMonkey204]

I am one of the painters of numerous repaints available for free, and also an internal tester of AIGAIM-OCI. Some people here say that my paints since they are freeware, it is ok for someone to use it, redistribute it, mess with it, generally do as someone pleases. Of course the liveries are copyrighted by the airlines. What about the time I spent painting those for you fellow simmer to enjoy? How are you going to compensate me for this? Some liveries I enjoyed painting, and did them mainly for my own pleasure. Others took me weeks of research and painting them as accurately as I possibly could. And they are free. And I want them to be downloaded from wherever I want them to be downloaded. Now let’s say that someone takes a picture of an American Airlines’ 738. Then uploades it to airliners.net. Whose is the picture? Can the airline demand the picture not to be published? Can I download the picture and do as I please because it is freely available? If I remove my repaint from the site I publish, can someone force me to reupload it because it is freeware? How about the commercials and the logos in special liveries? There is a paint at juergenbaumbusch.de by Nils Bindauf. There is an Aegean Airlines promoting Acropolis Museum. This repaint is used by simmers all over the world. Is it an advertisement (not paid, but shouldn’t it) or an insult? I don’t expect answers, I just provide some food for thought. And I expect my repaints to be downloaded from the site that hosts them for someone’s personal use. No redistributions allowed (But I am no fool, I know you will do it anyway).

[SofieGrozovski]

@oTLRo, yes, this will be the best. Give me a minute to write a post and close this topic.

[blueline308]

In the words of a famous Los Angeles criminal, “can’t we all just get along”

[Kitty73732747]

provide some food for thought

Ok here is some food for thought:

But I am no fool, I know you will do it anyway

Yes people are and will do that, but THESE people weren’t. They have said they won’t distribute it without permission. You should be kissing the ground thy walk on because:

How are you going to compensate me for this?

Well, they aren’t, except for giving you credit, which I hear artists crave, because the expense and burden of proof to get “monetary” compensation would be 100% on you. Good luck with that!

If I remove my repaint from the site I publish, can someone force me to reupload it because it is freeware?

That statement makes little sense in the real world, but knock yourself out lol.

@Sofia, yeah sorry, I am being civil. I am just a smart Alec boy from Brooklyn(Captain America line) and I got paid to do this type of verbal judo for a living. I am retired and sometimes miss it

What about the time I spent painting those for you fellow simmer to enjoy? How are you going to compensate me for this?

Alice now you went down the rabbit hole.

So what about every other moder and artist that makes free scenery? Are they just better human beings?(food for thought). I own and created a Guild, should I charge everyone for the work I do? Should my officers get paid? Some people just are into “community”, some are mercenaries though. Pick your poison.

What I find , ironic and completely intriguing, is that “all of a sudden” all these “so called” artists in question have come out of the woodwork to explain themselves, and defend. This has made my night!

It is like " we don’t seek your approval , but we do seek your approval"

I am done here. You guys have made my night with the double talk lol

[SofieGrozovski]

Misunderstanding was found and resolved. Topic closed. Details here.

[SofieGrozovski]

P.S. @NormalMonkey204 I certanly understand your feelings, and personally assure you we won’t do this. I’ve rid from more the half of the team when suspected this might happen. I don’t believe we will restore your faith in humanity, but I hope our team will be an example of ethical modding.

[BasalTooth60149]

“We at AIG have our own projects for MSFS coming out and we want to keep our work in house”
This is understandable, and good luck with the new project.

[Tuskin38]

@Abriael

Your software isn’t even in direct competition. As I understand, FSLTL uses Asobo’s live AI, while Alpha India is an offline AI solution.

They’ve said the AIG OCI will also be comparable with live ai, that’s just not their focus for the project unlike FSLTL.

[SofieGrozovski]

This is a continuation of this topic.

If you don’t know what FSLTL is please read our announcement.

After a brief discussion with @oTLRo, AIG artist and representative, we have found that a misunderstanding had a place.

Now FSLTL-AIG agreement stands as follows:

• We still don’t have rights to host or modify AIG models. Precisely these are B752, B753, J328, PC12 and an A124
• We have no right to modify or host any AIG-created textures. This has no impact on FSLTL as we never intended to do so - FSLTL will require an ordinary FLAi installation to function. FSLTL will have the full amount of liveries on release.

I’m glad that we have overcome this, together. We did this by talking calmly and to the point. I have no moderation capabilities here, so the only thing I can is ask you to behave with dignity and treat each other with respect. Please, do so.

Still, as FSLTL is a community-open project, you can help it by contributing your liveries while we’re finishing our work. This includes complete reworks(not modification!) of existing ones, and creating new ones that aren’t included into FLAi now. All livery artists obviously will have access to the closed alpha and will be properly credited.

If you would like to participate, contact (@SofieGrozovski ) on Discord or by mail (sofiegrozovski@gmail.com)

Stay safe,
Sofie.