General Feedback --Two Months Later -- My MSFS 2020 Review

I’ve been flying it since it’s official release. Though I am not an expert at vfr flight I can do simple flight from point a to b the hook up the ils in most cases and land. I like the fact that I can now glide my planes over the runway threshold like in real life. I love the scenery and the weather. I’m optimistic about the airplanes. I’ve done a few group flights with a few friends and it’s great fun. I’m super thankful that we live in a day and age where we have home computers and sims like MSFS. It will constantly improve as long as we don’t slam the developers and make them feel like we don’t appreciate their amazing efforts.

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After two months of sim experience, I might profoundly state that I’ve hardly seen any betterment, except for comedowns and downgrades… regarding both graphics and avionics. However I still am simply in love with it, d*mn. My current relationship with MSFS2020 is a love and hate kind of thing…

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This is hardly a review…just some mindless ranting…

I just don’t get these kind of posts. If I would dislike something as much as this I would quit playing it and go back to whatever product I enjoyed more. What’s the point in staying in a community for something you clearly dislike?

In my opinion there are three approaches here:

  1. You dislike MSFS and should hence quit both the sim and the community. Which would do both yourself and the community a favour.
  2. You are not happy with MSFS currently but see potential and should take a break and return later. You keep an eye on the forums now and then maybe, but in a more passive way, as you don’t have much to contribute with as you are not actively using the sim.
  3. You enjoy MSFS and have the option to contribute to the community by sharing experiences, reporting bugs, suggesting improvements etc.

Constructive criticism is naturally fine, but this “review” really adds nothing of that.

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I see a lot of frustration on these forums and I understand why. In the history of flight sims this happens time over time. In the nineties I happend to be an official reviewer of the genre for a (paper based) games magazine. It was the time that I reveived almost every month a bunch of CD-roms with a new title to review, mostly arcade like sims. The very small hardcore community was eagerly awaiting some serious stuff but it takes an enormous amount of time to simulate this kind of fidelity, and will propably never reach the expectations of enjoying real flight.

X-plane had been around for a long time before it even became popular, mostly due to the fact that Microsoft stepped out of the genre and the community and developers started to enhance it. I remember the development of Falcon4 which took years and when it finally was released it had a very buggy start and the publisher killed it after a few years. However it’s still alive with the help of the community.

For what I see in this early life of msfs2020 I have strong belief that we are on the right track. The community is on board, and the developers are busy to start enhancing the sim. Maybe you are right that it is feeling more like an open beta in this state, but maybe that’s exactly why development will go faster.
I see a next level sim with a bright future.

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It just goes on and on and on forever, and doesn’t help anyone in any way. How hard should it be in the year 2020 to describe the problem/s, reproduction methods, hardware and software configs etc, and then post one copy in the #self-service section and the other in Zendesk? MSFS developers already acknowledged a huge majority of the issues and are working on them. They even addressed the silly little request concerning 'Press any key", something I never ever expected. In any other app, simulator or games the devs would simply ignore such requests.

I’m done with this. From now on if I see even the slightest hint of a condescending remark, bad attitude towards the project or developers, negative-nancism or anything remotely similar, that person will end up permanently in my ignore list in any and all MSFS-related social media platforms (the ignore feature is there for a reason).

I’m more than willing to help people in the Bugs section or support them with raising their concern by upvoting etc. But these negative nancies are a distraction and just a waste of space and time for the large majority of grateful and knowledgeable people who are willing to help and not having major issues with the sim.

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Blockquote
They even addressed the silly little request concerning 'Press any key", something I never ever expected.

In this you’re right that it’s incredibly silly, but I’m actually disappointed they have that earmarked for next release while actual critical bugs are still “Not Started”
Besides, the fantastic community already beat them to the punch:

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you had the chance to try the full sim for 1 month at a cost of 1$/€ which would be automatically refunded when canceled before the end of the subscription

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I wonder if in a car simulator its dynamics and control did not correspond to reality, but the landscape would be beautiful, how would the user react? And the developer says that this is an exact copy. It’s just that absolutely everyone drives cars and they immediately feel the catch. Even Xbox users

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Same here. My position now, 2 sims. My currently installed , for many years, Xplane 11.50 vulkan fully loaded for my ifr and true orbx te vfrs, fs2020 for vfr,low and slow with the unreal metar only.

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Nailed it right there!

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The business model of MFS is ofcause to make a simulator that will satisfy 90% of potential customers over time.
The money does not come from the hardcore simmers or even the semi hard core. It comes from the casual simmers or people just wanting to experience the thrill of flying.
But even the less experienced or novices or “fun” gamers want something realistic, hence the need to cater for the (hardcore) simming community. They dont want another Microsoft Flight fiasco on their hands.

Asobo/Microsft have quite clearly said that MFS is an evolving platform where 3rd party developers are a key ingredient, and quite cleverly thought so.

There have sold more than one million copies so far. The simming community (people that see this as an ongoing hobby) is about 10% of that, 100.000 worldwide. This is the ones that are active on this forum.

So the problem for Microsoft is to find the sweet spot where their evolving platform caters for the majority of simmers as well as 90% non simmers without spending millions of $ or lengthy development on aircraft or systems the wast majority of users dont care about.
They leave it to 3rd party developers to do so, and quite rightly so.

I think that Asobo/Microsoft have hit that spot rather well so far. Nice assortment of aircraft, much further developed than earlier sims lineup of default aircrafts with adequate systems depth for the majority to enjoy.

What they have done not so well is too many bugs at launch, and a unfinished SDK that hampers launch of “studylevel” aircrafts.

To the ones that expected a simulator with full systems depth, it be aircraft, communication, navigation or their own house in precise 3d glory I say welcome to the real world.

If there were a profitable marked for this we would have many more sims to choose from.

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yep yep yep.

It’s a very difficult game of balancing and juggling the balls. To properly understand it we need to go back to the very early days of IBM/Xerox/Apple/Microsoft/Novell/Linux/Sun. It’s a separate scholarly topic in its own right, requires heavy research and studies and I won’t go into it now but here are some questions for anyone who’s interested:

  1. How did Microsoft being a software/OS-only company single-handedly bring Apple - then a hardware+software company - to its knees? Answer: Third party support.

  2. How do Valve, a video-game development company, no longer make video games but still make billions of dollars every year? Answer: Third party support.

  3. Why did some flight sims such as Microsoft Flight, Dovetail’s Flight Sim World, Xplane11 and Aerofly FS2 die? Answer: Lack of third party support

Moral of the story: For flight simulator and many other apps/services, once you tick the third parties off, you end up with a dead product. You do not tick them off. You need them under your umbrella, not on top or outside of it.

Microsoft have the financial and corporate strength to kill all the third party study-level aircraft developers within the next two months by asking Boeing, Airbus and Textron to develop and release study-level aircraft, but doing so will be neither moral nor beneficial to the flight sim community in the long run.

You are being deliberately abstruse by saying Xplane 11 is dead. In fact, it’s as strong as ever and development is well ahead for Xplane 12.

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Try and be a little more considered and adult please.

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No IFR ???

Weird … flying IFR from nice to rotterdam on instruments in a c172… 5 hours (1 to go )… no crashes … no nothing … working like a charm … OnAir on my Ipad … GREAT FUN. Weather is impressive … 40 FPS on my gaming LAPTOP … again NO ISSUES ( although i’m not everyone … i know that )

No IFR ???

Ever tried the A320nx mod ? Or other mods for that matter

No IFR ???

Do you know how to tune a VOR at all ? No issues with that.

No IFR ???

Aha … you THINK IFR is : loading a msfs flightplan in a fmc and “fly” 8 hours on autopilot to autoland in the end ??

PERFECT : nope … but just 2 months old … imagine what this will be in 10 months more ! If you can imagine

Have fun

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I think that you are right that 3rd party support are a key ingredients in creating a successful sim. It keeps interest alive with new apps popping up all the time catering for mainstream or niche demands.

You are also right in that if Microsoft wanted to kill off 3rd party developers they quite easily could do so, but it is not in their interest to do so or financially a sound proposition. Over time the sim community will change focus from default sim, default aircrafts etc and towards new existing 3rd party products.

Microsoft can then sit back and make a buck or two launching…helicopters…gliders…you name it.

Medium, long term(5-7-10 years) however I think that they will need to move to a paid subscription to cover cost of running/updating servers and program. Take that as a prediction!

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No, it won’t. Adjust your expectations and focus on the right things. Each time I jump in, I know I will enjoy it, because I know what I can expect at this time and I know why I start the sim. We know the issues that are present.

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I jumped from FSX:SE to MSFS.

After getting wowed by the visuals for a while, I stopped playing and went to building a new P3Dv4 from scratch.

Sure, many find MSFS wonderful. No doubt it is,and I love it. But for my own requirements flying airliners, the good environment visuals don’t matter as much. P3Dv4 is sufficient for my purpose as well. Going beyond actual simulation of the aircraft (which I have PMDG), I need the airliner-capable airports to be as accurate as possible. Nevermind a bit outdated.

With P3Dv4 I can get that. It’s a lot of trouble to install scenery for every airport, but at the end of the day I get airports with accurate taxiway and gates. For everything else, I can populate with my imagination.

Ohh also, I get a full suite of AI traffic based on real-world schedules from Alpha India Group, updated to Summer/Winter 19, and all the hustle and bustle of pre-COVID 19 air traffic. The world feels alive. I know there are people working on this for MSFS, but from the sound of it, I don’t think it’ll be solved quickly.

The weather in P3Dv4 may be outdated visually, but still superbly modelled with Active Sky. I don’t get lightning everywhere or excessive icing. I’m not saying the weather in MSFS is bad, but it still needs some work. Until then, I am fine to work with visually oudated weather in P3D.

Did you guys also notice that several parts of the world in MSFS have UTC timezone issues? Like really obvious ones. Tibet and Xinjiang should be UTC +8, but shows up as UTC+6. All of Malaysia should be UTC +8, but some cities in West Malaysia are in +7. Bali should be +8, but shows up as +7.

I know this ain’t a big deal to most people. But to fly for a virtual airline that checks flight time based on origin-destination UTC, this is important. With P3Dv4 there are 3rd party fixes available from the FSX days.

MSFS is indeed next-generation revolutionary, and I’ll jump right back in now and never look back if everything works for me. But with the outstanding issues and the speed at which the development is going, looks like it’ll take quite a while before the advantages for me outweigh the ills. Until then, I’ll stick with P3dv4 (and eventually P3Dv5 once the kinks are ironed out) where the visuals may be more than 10 years old, but has all the things that I need.

I’m sure some will flame or even be agitated by this. No matter. We all have our specific wants from flight simulation. I’m not here to convert anyone to my point of view. Just sharing what works for me and what not.

Happy Friday guys.

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The whole discussion about MSFS being a “game” or a “simulator” or whether it works well or not becomes relative when you notice the many questions about how you turn on the autopilot in the Extra or Pitts. :man_facepalming:t2:

There are sooo many people here who MAYBE should first learn to control an airplane with their hands on the sticks before they start to do any “IFR”. But if all you can do is program an FMC and hit the AP button then it’s pretty obvious and important if the plane flies a circle. Anyway, you are totally right but those who have not a slightest idea of flight are those with the loudest voice. It’s become pointless to reason with them, let them scream.

I’ve done a (real) 4 hours flight with a 1970’s twin turboprob last weekend and I laughed my a… off deep inside thinking of the drama in the forums when the autopilot was simply not doing what I was hoping it to do. It simply has “bugs” by design :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

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The varying opinions about MSFS fascinate me.

I have long been a hardcore sim racer, and a slightly more casual flight simmer. The same debates exist with the car crowd. Sim or game. The new sim has too many bugs. I miss my old sim. AND a key one, if you have been driving or flying your favorite sim for years, switching to a new sim with a different performance model is ALWAYS disconcerting no matter HOW GOOD the new model is, because we get used to how something else feels.

X-Plane handles differently than MSFS with wheels down, and the ground effect is different too.

After a few months, I have grown to like the MSFS ground effect even though I thought it was nonexistent to start. Now I go back to X-Plane, and I struggle to get wheels down on my first attempt. :joy:

It only means I am getting used to MSFS, as I swore by X-Plane’s ground effect modeling for years.

MSFS is drawing me in, but I know there are simmers who demand polish… they were complaining when X-Plane 11 came out too, because it was entirely buggy to begin as well.

And it certainly depends on what you do. I mainly fly GA VFR… and MSFS in spite of some flaws, really excels at that right out of the box. Makes X-Plane feel… trite. But if I loved IFR with tubeliners? I might still prefer X-Plane.

Neither is a game. Neither has you fly to win as your primary focus. Yes, I know we have landing challenges but that isn’t the main focus of MSFS.

Folks are going to complain. And MSFS will be patched over time to quell the complaints.

I wish sims were easier to make bug free, but that just isn’t their nature. They are all rough when released. Doesn’t matter if it simulates cars or planes. Sims bring bugs.

I have flown every MSFS since the first one (in grade school, 1983, computer lab day). Sims were smaller then. We like to think they didn’t have bugs. They did though, the bugs were just baked in so we had to deal with them or work around them. Otherwise the sim was broken upon release, with no means to patch it.

Patching makes us dwell on bugs because we know we can get a fix eventually. But we wouldn’t see a sim like this if we couldn’t patch it. It is impossible to release something of this scale and scope that is relatively bug free without a lot of community feedback, and extra tweaks. That always takes time past release.

Don’t like it? I don’t blame you. Give it time to mature, and use your most mature sim until MSFS patches itself out a bit more.

I’ll be flying VFR bush trips in MSFS while you wait.

As long as you are flying, it’s all good.

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