The scenery is better in msfs 2020 and if your friend is not using P3d 5.2 the sky and haze is better. I don’t use real weather much. There are YouTube examples your friend can see how msfs 2020 looks I still have both 2020 and P3d now because 2020 still needs some work. But since the release last year its a lot better now. I have a 4 year old computer and the performance is great no lagging or scenery jumping. But I do not have any add ons except a few airports from Orbx.
That is because in MSFS the elevator deflection is depending on g-loading and airspeed. You only notice this in developer mode, when pulling the joystick full back the in-sim flight controls also move fully aft, the elevator deflection however is limited at higher speed. You simply don’t have enough elevator authority to keep flying level until stall in a steep turn in MSFS. Asobo has done this to simulate increase stickforces at higher airspeed and or g-loading but its overdone.
This “stress damage”has nothing to do with vertical speed, likely you are over speeding in this condition. I have tried pulling the yoke full aft at high speed, the aircraft does not exceed max. load factor because Asobo has limited the maximum elevator deflection at higher speed.
Depends on the situation, in a descending steep turn you won’t need any throttle. You need to prevent the speed from reducing below stall speed, which might require extra throttle Indeed, for example in level flight.
Stall speed in a turn increases by the square root of 1 / cos AOB.
Don’t need graphs for that:
Stallspeed = 1g stallspeed x square root of 1 / cos AOB.
30 deg AOB = x 1.07
45 deg AOB = x 1.19
60 deg AOB = x 1.41
First check if I understand your terminology right.. this g-loading depends on the radius of the turn, so it depends on how sharp your turn is ? What do you mean with “stickforce” ? I’m a keyboard player.. Is this behaviour applicable to keyboard ?
Nice to read two pilots in a topic.. This explains.. sometimes when I take off, start my go around and I do not take back throttle and even put flaps back, I get a stall beeper. I notice that often when I do a go-around with e.g. Carenado CMY-5, which has a very low base air speed on take offs. As soon as I want to go around and start banking, the stall beeper starts. So MSFS does take your cosine formula into account, somehow ! I always increase throttle when the stall beeper kicks in, but then it needs elevator down too, else I’ll gain too much altitude for the goaround..)
How does this behaviour compare with P3D and XPlane ? For GA aircraft ?
G-loading depends on the angle of bank for example a 60 degree steep turn whilst maintaining altitude means 2g (1/cos 60). But also when abruptly pulling the nose up during flight increases the loadfactor. Basically loadfactor is lift / weight, during cruise the loadfactor is therefore 1. Stallspeed increases by the square root of the loadfactor, so when loadfactor is higher be aware of higher stallspeed.
In real life the “stick force” increases as speed increases, it becomes harder to move the controls. Also in real life, you can feel the the effect of your control inputs much better, Asobo tried to replicate that by limiting the control surface deflection at higher speed and / or g-loading. But they have overdone this effect. You can’t see this unless in developer mode monitoring the actual control surface deflection.
I don’t think it matters if you use the keyboard or a joystick. If I were you I would buy a simple, cheap joystick. The most basic and ■■■■ joystick is still a hundred times better than using a keyboard.
You should always have sufficient airspeed before retracting the flaps and keep the angle of bank below 30 degrees, then it should be fine. Fun fact is that the stallspeed is actually lower during a climb (no bank) as part of the thrust is working vertical, the wings don’t need to produce as much lift (lift is lower than the weight, so loadfactor is < 1).
The correct response in case of any stall is to lower the nose first, then add power. The other way around (especially on big aircraft) will create a nose up moment aggravating the stall. You could even recover the stall without any power at all, but then you need to trade altitude for speed. I think when you are talking about adding throttle, you are actually talking about increasing speed, which you could do using throttle.
The formulas might seem intimidating, but if you fly in an actual plane you’ll understand them intuitively (the load factor one at least), since they give very direct feedback through actual increase of g’s. A coordinated and level 60deg steep turn will give exactly 2g as stated (1/cos60), and that you will definitely feel! 45deg you’ll feel in your stomach a little bit and you feel a bit heavier(since it’s only about 1.4g), a 2g turn you feel in your cheeks! If you don’t then either you’re turning at less than 60deg or you’re losing altitude. A very good indication without having to look at instruments
As to adding power without dropping the nose, this is what both nose- and center-of-wing mounted piston engine as well as under-wing nacelles jets will do, albeit for different reasons (nose- and centerofwing engines will substantially increase airflow over the wing and stabilizer for the given AOA hence increase lift on the wings and downforce on the tail resulting in a pitching moment around the CG; under-wing nacelles won’t do this of course but they create a moment lever around the center of lift which induces a pitch-up moment).
So generally when increasing thrust you have to lower the nose, level flight or stall attitude doesn’t actually matter
So if you’re in a stall and increase thrust without decreasing Pitch you’ll just continue the stall
BTW flaps are first of all high-lift devices rather than high-drag devices (they increase wing chord, thus giving more lift (and more drag) for a same AOA).
So if you remove flaps too soon, you initially reduce lift more than drag, hence the airplane drops initially. Less lift also means higher stall speed (since less lift requires higher AOA to maintain speed/altitude). So adding power without pitch reduction plus removing flaps compounds, and you end up in stall again
Simply put, think of applying pitch and thrust together: push the throttles push the pitch control, pull on throttles pull on pitch control! Remove flaps slowly only, after you’ve established positive climb
And maybe good to add, you can stall an aircraft at any attitude or airspeed. The stall speed is only relevant when flying straight and level, stall is not actually depending on speed. A stall is exceeding the critical angle of attack which can happen at any attitude or airspeed. It doesn’t sound intuitive maybe but you can fly 20 kts without stalling, you can also fly 200 kts and stall the aircraft, you can pitch 90 degrees up without stalling but also fly level while the aircraft is in a stall. We often associate low speed and high pitch with stalling, and often this is the case, but it doesn’t have to be.
Hello Microsoft and Asobo!
Never could afford a decent PC for FSX… Didn’t want to go P3D or any other FlightSim so parked my enthusiasm for FlightSim till hardware and Microsoft caught up.
2020 wubba lubba dub dub
I experiencced this once actually, in an extra 330
That thing is so quick to react and has so much control authority you have to be extremely careful to not stall it momentarily
I pulled a very very little too much to initiate a vertical climb (at speed way above the stall speed), it exceeded max AOA within literally half a second it also regains flying lift just as quickly!
It also goes vertical at a rather slow speed for a surprisingly long time (hammerheads are fun)
A very good visceral experience of the otherwise unintuitive theoretical principles we have to learn!
You sound like the sort of person that Hears a stall incoming.
This is why Digital Flightsim is so hard, (my thinking) as sound is a very contributing factor in motor management. Loving the DC-6 I hope to see it progress!
When you increase drag (which is what you are doing in a steep turn), one of two things need to happen to prevent a stall, either you add power or you descend. With the aircraft trimmed and power set for straight and level flight and you then bank over to 60 degrees, while still maintaining your altitude, the aircraft will eventually stall. If you let the aircraft descend, your trading altitude for airspeed and you can do that all the way down to the ground.
I will need to log on tonight and try some steep banks again, but from what I remember, the aircraft does stall at a higher airspeed when in a steep bank. I’ll report back. Oh, and yes, I have about 300 hours between the 152 and 172 in the real world and have done many steep turns in both of them.
Alas, I’m the person that lets it go into buffet and then wonders “what the hell was that” all too often
No !,… Kind Regards
Another thing not really experienced in any sim is going through your own wake turbulence when properly executing a steep turn! The first time you experience it makes you feel like the king of the air
Every sim aficionado should go and do a discovery flight at least once, just to experience what flying is like and why we’re so hooked on it!
Your instructor is having you bank to 40 degrees on your base leg? Wow. Wow is all I can say.
Well actually, if you put yourself in the situation to need a 40 degree bank on your base leg, something has gone wrong and that is the point where you need to go around. That is what I was taught.
That’s how I was taught to do expedited (or sometimes called “short” by ATC) Vfr approaches, a feat that requires lots of power, experience, and very careful managing of speed and altitude… (and a way to lose both quickle when aligned on final). not for the first few lessons certainly!
No….please read the whole post…
I’m not sure how accurate they can make wake turbulence, but they did mention in one of their Q&A’s that they do plan on adding wake turbulence when they can get to it. So maybe we can find our own wake in a steep turn some day, that would be interesting.
True, I did stop reading after I read 40 degree bank on base.