Help with flying from Samedan Airport LSZS at 5000' and in snow

Hello

New here - so please if this is not the place for a question, please advise where. Ok I thought I would have a go at flying from Samedan Airport, which is at 5000’ altitude. Using real weather it is currently in snow. Very challenging, but I am happy with VFR fliying and am confident of landings etc, but I am getting bad take off performance in the C172. I am using flaps 1 and have the fuel pump on, I can barely get to 80 knots and have a climb of around 50’ or so.

So does anyone know where I could get some info on high altitude flying please? Or just some tips on how to improve performance.

Keith

Hey there :waving_hand:t5:

Two things, you are at high altitude so try and get your mixture correct. Adjust your mixture until you get the highest RPM. Also you’re in snow which the C172 is not great for C172.

Hope this helps a little,

First no need for the fuel pump. The 172 is fuel injected the pump is only for a loss in fuel pressure as a back up, also to prime the engine to start it in cold weather (I honestly do not know if the game simulates this)

Second 5,000 ft MSL shouldn’t effect the performance that much one thing to keep in mind when it comes to fuel mixture is that you don’t want too rich of a mixture in the higher altitudes. The idea is the higher an altitude You are the thinner the air is so to speak. So with more fuel you are getting a very rich mixture that is fuel heavy and in a sense the aircraft will have a harder time burning it. So you’re basically flooding the engine and wasting fuel.

With that being said, during takeoff you should always be full Rich in real life this is a safety to prevent fuel issues creating performance issues when you’re trying to climb to a safe altitude in case of emergency.

On the ground in practice, we lean the fuel till the RPMs start to change and then turn it back a quarter of an inch or a quarter of a turn to just before that RPM change occurred. This means you are now lean of peak aka the best fuel air mixture prior to affecting engine performance. The engine will run a little warmer, but as long as you’re not too hot you’re fine.

Regarding your performance on takeoff, this could be from two factors. One, if you’re taking off in an extreme headwind, the Cessna 172 doesn’t have a lot of power. Technically, you’re rotating around 64 knots and climbing around 70 to 90 knots depending on your profile. So 80 is right in the center of that. If you’re trying to climb more aggressively stick to around 74 knots.

In reality, the Cessna 172 is going to cruise around 115 knots give or take based on weather or not you have a headwind or a tail wind and the overall weather you’re flying in. With that being said, it is perfectly normal in some situations weather and wind permitting to be flying right around 80 knots in a 172. Yes, it’s slow but you don’t have a very high horsepower engine its somewhere between 160 to 180 horsepower depending on the model so don’t expect any high performance Takeoffs like in a Cessna 182 which is better but not significantly better. However, the difference is night and day.

I hope this helps, the in-game checklist though is pretty accurate for the most part on the 172 with a few small exceptions but those mostly don’t affect flight characteristics. Also, the use of flaps on takeoff isn’t always necessary, We tend to use flaps mostly on takeoff in a 172 when dealing with a short airstrip or if you’re heavy and dealing with weather-related performance issues such as a high barometric pressure. So keep in mind you may want to take off with no flaps and that could increase your performance.

The same goes for landings. There are going to be times where you’re going to want to land with no flaps usually when dealing with significant winds and there will be other times where you’re going to need those flaps.

I know this is a simulator and it’s meant to be fun, but it’s a good idea to get a good understanding of the aircraft. You’re flying! A piece of advice is to search for the Cessna 172 model s. Poh online. You could probably find a few free PDF files. The poh is the pilot operating handbook for that airplane. A lot of it won’t pertain because it’s a simulator, but the basic flight characteristics and performance calculations can be found in that book and may guide you or at least help you understand why your aircraft is performing the way it is. If you have any questions, I’m happy to help

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Ok thanks. I was sure the mixture was right, perhaps I will test auto mixture. I have flown C172’s but never at such an altitude, so not really a comparison, assuming the sim is true to life of course. This airport seemed a challenge, so a bit more work needed.

Thinking more on this, at 5,000 ft you will have slightly lower performance on the climb out but u would normally see it more in hot humid climates.

Idk the specifics of the weather and wind at the airport but I think the game does offer some performance planning options and the ability to calculate the take off roll and landing distance though it’s probably not the best or easiest to work out.

As far as your mixture question goes, a personal recommendation would be

Take off & landings - Full rich mixture (auxiliary fuel pump off)

Cruise- set power to about 2300RPM reduce mixture to about the 80% indication (in game this is usually safe)

** If your using a G1000 plane watch the GPH indicator on the MFD screen the fuel flow arrow should be with in the green range preferably closer to the mid off that green range shooting for a fuel flow of 10gph.

Doing all that and you should be golden as far as the engine performance, as to what the plane can handle regarding weather and wind stay out of any cross winds greater then 15kts or your in for a rough flight

At 5,000ft you already lose like a minimum of 15% power, even at the correct mixture. Running rich will lose you a significant amount more. On top of that, you will need to accelerate to around 5kts TAS more than at sea level, even with the temperature down at 0°C.

This all adds up…

From the C172S POH. Just for fairness I highlighted the numbers for 20°C @ sea level vs 0°C @ 5,000 ft. This shows like a 36% increase in ground roll, with a professional pilot and everything perfect…

The C172S POH says to lean to maximum RPM for takeoffs above 3,000 ft:

Ok Thanks. I am now getting a slightly better climb out, still not perfect, but acceptable for the C172. Its a nice airfield, and with good scenery so worth the effort. I am going to try one of the twin engines next.

Calculating Takeoff and Landing Distance | Cessna 172 POH

This is just what people are talking above in a more illustrated form. This is how to use POH in this case.

And from me… there is some difference you walk on an asphalt road or on a sand or on a mad. There is some difference when you walk hot day or cold. There is some difference when you fly planes in different weather/atmo conditions.

3000-5000 ASL - this is a nice altitude to fly 172 under normal conditions. So, train yourself flying there first - learn how the plane reacts, what is happening to stall speeds, relations btw mixture settings and EGT e.t.c. After you are comfortable there - learn the same when there is +50C or even +60C. Learn how to fly in a thick air under different temperatures and density altitudes ans you will not be surprised that your take-off/landing roll is different (see POH), your vertical speed is miserable e.t.c.