Looking to add rudder pedals for my PC VR setup. Currently use Honeycomb Alpha and Bravo as my yoke/throttle setup with keyboard to control rudders on ground. Looks like the Charlie pedals will start shipping out June 30th for US. Do you think it’s worth waiting?
I haven’t really found much information and don’t know enough about rudder pedals to know how the initial reviews compare to existing options. Would love your thoughts!
Hello, I thought about the Honeycomb Charlie. However when I saw the shear floor space it takes up I decided on the Thrustmaster TPR rudders. They are heavy, sit upright which helps with floor space and have adjustable foot pedal actions. I know they cost more but you will not be disappointed. Just my thoughts and I do have Alpha and Bravo but I just purchased the Thrustmaster Boeing Yoke since I mainly fly the airliners. I know that is more than you asked. 
You mentioned MFG Crosswind; I love mine. Also have the Honeycomb Alpha and Bravo, but didn’t want to wait forever for the Charlie, not that a matched set is essential.
I was wanting to get the Charlies a year and a half ago, but they continue to get pushed back. They are targeting June 30th in the US, but that’s been rescheduled many times, so if you continue to hold out, you may be holding awhile.
I also looked at the TPR and from what I hear they are fantastic, just couldn’t justify the price for something I’d put my big sweaty feet on and for what little use they actually get during a flight so I opted for the CH Pedals
Guys have been using their same pairs for 15+ years.
No complaints so far.
Ha still using my Saitek rudder pedals from 13 years ago haha. Thinking about a replacement but on the other hand they just feel so good and familiar haha.
So also curious as tho what the recommendation is these days
Same advice I give with other peripherals. Get the best you can. Users of existing products will often tell you how good the ones they use are and that’s only natural based on their experience but let me tell you once you’ve had better you would never want to go back. Not a fair comparison due to the price difference but I went from Saitek to TPR’s and there is a night and day difference. The TPR’s just feel smooth, precise and most importantly naturally feel right with feet on the floor operation like the real thing. The Saitek by comparison is none of those things. The Charlie’s look promising but we have little real world reports to be able to say how good they may be. The crosswinds are liked by those that use them but the action looks a little more Saitek than real aircraft to me. Just from looking at them and seeing what limited info we have so far I’d be waiting longer for the Charlie’s if you don’t feel like splashing on the TPR’s.
I bought the TPR pedals 6 months ago because I got tired of waiting for the Charlies, and I think the TPRs are excellent. Counterintuitively though, the good pedals were disappointing because they make it extremely evident how bad the yaw axis flight model is in the game. Before I had good pedals, I blamed my pedals. I can’t do that anymore.
I have the MFG Crosswind v2’s, and v3’s with the hydraulic damper. They are superb, both in use, and build quality. You can also get different sets of cams to adjust how the centre behaves.
If you are looking for small floor space rudder pedals with a vertical movement, i can strongly recommend these:
My 23 year old CHs are still kicking, but I’ve had to replace chafed wires in them a couple times. I also modded them with Velcro to provide friction/resistance and a softer center. But they still don’t have enough push back toward center and are not super comfortable to use (and I’m sure the wires will eventually give out again).
I’ve been looking heavily into the MFG and Virpil, but I can’t quite pull the trigger. I just feel like they are too widely-set and radial in action, versus pendular, which seems apt for helicopters, but not so much for aircraft. But I’m not sure if I want to shell out for the TPM (and I don’t think it will fit under my desk, anyway).
I have to believe the newer designs will do the job better and more accurately, but I need more convincing.
Agreed on the foot position. If I were to replace them I’d probably get the Virtual Fly Ruddo’s.
$1200?! For that, they’d better mow my lawn and do the dishes.
Seriously, though, until proper, modern force feedback is a widespread thing again. I won’t pay more than about $4-500 for any single of the main controllers, and that’s pushing it. It’s just not realistic enough for any controller to be simply emulating control pressure with springs and cams. I still get good results with the CH, as wonky as they are.
I’d heavily consider paying $1200 those if they had accurate, well-reviewed force feedback.
There was a great video about force feedback by X-Plane creator Austin Meyer.
My takeaway from that was it was a case of garbage in, garbage out. If you don’t feed the right simvars to the controller, then you have fantasy feedback. In the testing they conducted it appeared there was a disconnect between what the sim was doing, and what they could feel through the yoke. If I find the link I’ll post it here.
That’s not to denigrate FF, but to manage expectations. And that was with XP, a sim developed over decades. God alone knows what MSFS does.
On the train so can’t easily listen to these now, but one of these may be the one.
The first is Austin comparing yokes, one of which is a Brunner, and the other is a clarification of that video regarding the Bruner software.
Another way to put it would be you might not be happy paying $1200 that doesn’t have FF, but you might pay quite a bit more for one that does, then find out if doesn’t actually work as you expect, spend the next few months trying to make it, then realise it can’t. 
Yeah, that was exactly what I was saying - it’d have to be accurate and despite plenty of opportunity, we’re a long way off. My guess is the only way for it to scale to something affordable, accurate, and mass-producible is for Asobo/MS themselves to lead the charge on both the hardware and software side simultaneously. I’m not holding my breath.
At the same time, I just don’t understand what 4x the cost from low-end to high-end is really going to get me in terms of accuracy and feel if it still moves and recenters independent of any external inputs like (simulated) airflow and master cylinder pressure.
The bit resolution of the controller’s sensors does matter though. For example, the full travel of a yoke’s pitch axis divided by the bit resolution gives mm per LSB and that can be surprisingly high for cheaper controllers. Add some electrical noise in the sensor and you can end up with a twitchy feel. The more expensive controllers tend to have higher resolution and better sensors to mitigate that.
I set up my new MFG Crosswinds over the weekend. There’s not much I can add to the glowing reviews it’s getting across the webspace. It was easy to assemble, and it’s obvious that Milan put a lot of thought into the design. The only negative is that it’s very ‘tippy.’ I have to put both feet on the pedals at the same time. But once I’ve got weight on it, it’s fine. No slippage either, even on the the thin carpet it sits on. Some folks have mounted the pedals to a flat board to eliminate the tippyness. I might do that in the future.
I got the v3 with the hydraulic damper. I bought the extra cams and, along with the adjustable springs, really do change the way the pedals behave. Quite a customizable feel.
Bonus is that with the damper in place, and the spring and cam removed, it seems they will be perfect for helicopter use…something I haven’t gotten into yet, but one of the reasons I bought the Crosswinds.
It’s worth the money.
Yes they do seem to get good reviews.
Unfortunately, I can’t find a UK stockist that sells them.
Can’t you buy them direct from Milan?
That’s what I did. I got mine within a week. All the parts I wanted were in stock.
Probably customs making them quite a bit more expensive. Although i doubt id have to buy them again in my lifetime at least, since they seem to last forever and the parts are replacable.
Okay. Thanks. I will have a look 