Therefore can users with 8 or 16 GIG RAM also play MSFS. What not physical exist, comes from the pagefile ( with all the disadvantages of it ).
EDIT: and of course is RAM better as pagefile… my recommendation for MSFS at least 32GIG RAM. The comfort zone is then 64GIG RAM ( as you and I own ).
Yeah, I mean, I understand these things. You said you didn’t understand what he meant when he said “memory, not RAM” … yet you demonstrate that you know that know that a paging file is used as ‘virtual memory’, so it’s not hard to argue that what was meant by “memory, not RAM” means all combined forms of physical and virtual memory.
I guess you did have a good idea of this, but were just pulling someone up on their vernacular? ¯_(ツ)_/¯
Anyway, yeah, in case it’s not clear, I think what was meant by this ‘confusing’ comment, was “if you only have 16GB RAM, allocate a dedicated 16GB page file to MSFS, such that total ‘memory’ that it can use is 32GB+”
ähmm… I seen this now… Do you know that the Rolling Cache file is made for that you not again need to download data for areas you already visited ?.. A RAM Disk have a limited lifetime 
… Beside of these does windows the same, all the data are within the cache.
Ok. I agree, but terminology should be clear.
That was my only point.
Person A sells his computer and states it has 32 GB of memory.
Person B buys it.
Person B is not happy to find out his new computer has
16 GB of RAM (physical sticks of DDR4 SDRAM).
16 GB page file.
Accept my apology to @MichaMMA and yourself.
I thought the accepted definition of memory was referring to physical RAM.
dont worry… I simple have no other english words for better explanation. May be: “physical memory” versus “total memory”. Important is, that users know what is meant 
Yes important.
One of the contentious points being discussed is how much the paging file might be contributing to stutters. If the game can stay entirely in physical RAM instead of paging the claim is you will get less stutters.
It is. Page files are not memory and are not even close to the performance of RAM.
nobody tell that a pagefile reach nearly the speed of physical memory.
The pagegile ( named: Windows Virtual Memory ) is used in windows together with the physical memory and thus users get a “total amount of memory”.
The more useless discussion about spelling of word “memory” started as I agreed to this post and mention that users need a overall memory ( meant “total amount of memory” ) of at least 32GIG. The resulting recommendation to the question “How much RAM/VRAM do you really need” is then, for me, at least 32GIG RAM… but the game can run of course with 16GIG RAM + 16GIG pagefile, with some disadvantages.
I wrote often in the forum, that these kind of “memory-managment” needs to be optimized, because it is a SSD killer , huge pagefile slow-down just all, etc. and therefore I can never recommend less than 32GIG physical RAM for MSFS.
The page file does not add to your available RAM, it is not accessible by programs.
What the page file does is store recently used data so it can be swapped quickly back into RAM when need.
You still only have the same amount of RAM available to programs, the page file just lets you swap data in and out of the RAM from the page file rather than reloading it from scratch.
pagefile increase the committed memory limit and if users open the resource manager, they can see what is necessary. Nobody want to do a study about the pagefile
The Memory tab on the Windows 10 Resource Monitor will tell you just how much is in use, how much is being used by each app, and how much is currently free. AFAIK, memory isn’t allocated to an app - it uses it as it needs it, provided there is some RAM available. You can actually watch the amount of RAM being used by an app, second by second.
Apologies if I’m teaching granny to suck eggs…
The Resource Monitor tells you all of that.
How much memory is free, how much is allocated and how much is in active use.
Maybe “allocated” is not the correct term and “reserved” should be used instead.
If so, I apologize since I am not a native speaker and I don’t work in IT. The internet also destroyed what my Cambridge Certificate of Advanced English once taught me to be good English.
AFAIK, memory isn’t allocated to an app - it uses it as it needs it, provided there is some RAM available.
I don’t think that is how it works. Because something must tell the running processes how much memory is still available and where. Here is in a nutshell what the columns in Resource Monitor tell us:
- Commit – Amount of virtual memory reserved by the operating system for the process.
- Working Set – Amount of physical memory currently in use by the process.
- Shareable – Amount of physical memory in use by the process that can be shared with other processes.
- Private – Amount of physical memory in use by the process that cannot be used by other processes.
Note that all the talk about memory use by MSFS centers around the Commit column. This is the amount of virtual memory reserved for a process, in contrast to the physical memory in use by a process in all other columns.
This refers to something called the Commit charge, which is basically the total amount of virtual memory demand (physical memory AND pagefile) that Windows has to make fit somehow. Memory committed to one process is no longer available to other processes for the most part.
And here the simulator is causing problems. If the amount of committed memory to flightsimulator.exe and all other running processes exceeds the available total, the sim will crash because Windows basically pushes the red button on it so the entire system does not crash.
If any of the above is grossly wrong and incorrect, feel free to correct me and add to the discussion.
an example about which “resource monitor” I wrote:
PS.: @MorsAbAlto84 thanks for good summary
I want everyone to look at @MichaMMA’s screenshot and note the number of private bytes that flightsimulator.exe is demanding in relation to all the other processes his PC is running and how little memory is sharable.
Since Resource Monitor is limited in scope and not a good tool to debug anything, it’s hard to tell the actual amount the simulator actually uses. But the high number of privates bytes indicates that a lot of the commit is actually being actively used in some way.
What you have listed is absolutely correct, as far as it goes. These are a couple of caveats, of course.
First, what you say ignores the fact that
a) If you watch the values in the resource monitor for a while, you can see those figures going up and down as the app draws up or frees RAM. Note, there is a well known problem called RAM leakage which can affect your PC if an App isn’t behaving correctly, where RAM is allocated, and when the app has finished with it, it doesn’t get put back into the RAM “pool”, but becomes unavailable. This is not normal RAM management, but rather a bug that needs squashing.
b) Below the table you refer to, there is a bar graph which shows you graphically just how much RAM is in use at a particular point in time. If you watch it, you will see values changing over time, as RAM is used, and freed up.
My example below is of a fairly boring session on my non-FS PC, but you can see the graphic presentation that I mentioned.
About the only aspect that doesn’t appear to change is the tiny amount that is Hardware reserved. The rest is quite dynamic.
There is a tool called RamMap that will free up RAM if you have a need to do so:
We agree that your point a) is likely a memory leak or bug in the memory management of MSFS since it tends to over-commit memory under heavy loads on my PC. Other programs handle this much better.
Your addendum that memory use is dynamic is of course important. I should have noted that in my summary. But it was not my intention to ignore that fact in any way.
When I fly in MSFS I see a variance of about 4 GB over complex scenery. Meaning it frees up some memory in the cruise portion of my flight but as soon as I get near the destination the usage and commit surge up again, leading to a situation where there is no more VAS available and the sim crashes.
So arguably the problem is not only that the simulator is unable to free up memory in time, but it also commits too much of it at times, which can lead to a CTD, sometimes even without error code, making it necessary to dig into the event logs of Windows.
The only mitigation strategy that worked for me was tuning down the detail of the procedurally generated entities like buildings and trees and reducing the size of shadow maps.
That resolved 90% of micro stutters and enabled me to finish 75-90% of my flights.
I will check out the tool you mentioned, but seeing how many private bytes Flight Simulator is demanding, I doubt it would have much of an effect.
Edit:
@OAPJRG
Does RamMap use
%windir%\system32\rundll32.exe advapi32.dll,ProcessIdleTasks
or does it have some added functionality to clear the RAM?
yep… this trick to use RAMMAP to clean the memory I already mention within the forum (e.g.), but not in a thread which ask about a recommendation for “how many RAM you need”… My recommendation is still at least 32GIG RAM.
@MorsAbAlto84 may be interessting tool for you is also this one
I know ProcessExplorer, it’s useful agreed.
I have sold my i7 10700/3070 32gb setup bc I felt the focus on performance was just too much of a distraction. And it was like just enough or a little underpowered in some situations. (traffic, some ultra settings like clouds, addons, complex flight decks etc). So I found myself choosing easy scenery and better running planes to enjoy the sim.
I ve been flighsimmer since 95 [with the start of nvidia voodoo cards] and all I can say is MSMF2020 is absolutely stunningly beautiful. The flexing wings, the clouds, the photorealistic sceneries the reflections, the list is endless. No empty brown/green fields with floating blocks to look like houses, roads/rivers that look awful and, like any other sim. just incredible scenery. It made my eyes water, when I first saw it. And it works almost form any drone or outside view to look fantastic. Way better than I initially expected.
I now decided to wait (prob a long time) for setups to become available that are powered way beyond fs2020. It will take time, but then I waited 14 yrs for 2020 to come out. : )
Will be following developments throughout.
I’d like to know if buying more, and faster ram would be of benefit to me.
I have a high-end PC, with an i9 10850k, a 3090, and 32GB of 3200Mhz ram.
I fly in VR exclusively, currently using a Quest 2, but I’ve got a Vive Pro 2 coming next week.
I have wondered if upgrading to 64 GB 3600 Mhz ram would be worthwhile. Would it allow me to do things like up my Terrain and Object LOD’s to 200 in VR, increase the number of shadows, and set buildings and reflections to ultra rather than high?
