Hi, it’s not a bug report or complaints re TM integration which are well known, so I consider it a general discussion/question. I am curious how do planes react to such tiny movements of the yoke/stick. Any real-life pilots would like to share some experience? Is it in any way comparable to default TM hotas one behavior where a tiny bit fast sub-millimeter movements seem to quite seriously throw the plane out of balance?
You have to “Dial,” that thing down…
I do not fly anything on default settings.
Map The HOTAS ONE
Aircraft response to subtle control movements in MSFS is not realistic at all. However it should be noted that a real aircraft is controlled by pressures, not by deflections. You apply pressure on the yoke or pedals and you may not even see them move, but the airplane will react. The difference with the sim here is that the real airplane reacts to these tiny deflections in a slow, stable, and predictable manner, unlike MSFS which throws them completely out of control. In this regard, older MSFS versions, including P3D, behaved much more realistically. In MSFS, the short-term reaction is completely unrealistic.
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Agreed. The way you do this is to go to the controls settings, select the joystick, and click the “sensitivity” button to the left.
Try starting with -50% for both the elevator and the aileron axes. And probably something similar for the rudder axis as well. Some will prefer a bit closer to zero (maybe -30%) and some further (maybe -70%).
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The twitchiness on my Hotas One was driving me crazy. I “cured” the problem by buying a T.16000m. No more twitchiness and no need to set huge deadzones.
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I totally agree. Slow, stable and predictable is exactly how it behave IRL.
Regarding the stability of planes on MSFS, let us also note that in general, it is totally unrealistic. In real life, most planes (and in particular those used in schools, like C152) are naturally stable and not very nervous (obviously, it is different for aerobatic planes and military planes). So when you let go of the stick, the plane tends to resume a stable flight line. On MSFS, it is often the opposite, some planes bank/tilt if you do not correct the stick permanently, and even end up going into a spin.
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Is the real aircraft affected much by power setting? I find that the 152 in the sim will fly somewhat straight at a moderate throttle setting but starts wanting to drift at lower or higher settings.
Do you mean yaw-wise?
I’m seeing a tendency to roll either left or right in most single engine aircraft in the sim. A little testing earlier in the 152 showed that I could more or less keep the aircraft straight and level hands off on a constant heading by adjusting the power setting to roughly 2300 RPM.
Small planes are built (and adjusted) to be stable and require no inputs (in stable air) during cruise. 2200-2350 RPM would be a normal cruise setting on a C152 giving you around 90kts.
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That’s pretty much what I’m seeing right now in the 152, just over 90kts at 2200 RPM, weather conditions clear. In fact I’ve had it running like that for several minutes now hands off and the aircraft is maintaining airspeed, altitude and heading.
This is in the stock 152, not the JPL C152 mod.
Exactly what is “Twitchie” ??
Been flying for more than 30 years, and have never come across the word Twitchie in Aviation.
DEFINITION
nervous and worried, sometimes showing this through sudden movements or movements that do not appear smooth or relaxed:
OK, so maybe I do get a little “Twitchie” when I fly MSFS, and nervous about when the CTD will occur ?
On searching, then only reference I can easily find to TWITCHIE, in an FAA documentation is
A person hyperventilating will have some definite signs and symptoms;
TWITCHING MUSCLESAs the alkaline-high blood enters the muscle, the muscle will react by twitching. Muscles of the face and the forearms seem to be the most prone.
ref: https://www.faa.gov/pilots/training/airman_education/media/IntroAviationPhys.pdf
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I think the thread starter’s hotas is afflicted by random spiking that makes the sim aircraft feel twitchy to fly - uncommanded inputs being delivered to the sim. My own Hotas One has pretty severe spiking in the Y axis as soon as I pull back or push forward about 50% of the axis travel. You can see this in the sim sensitivity settings.
Sounds like NOISY Pots … A little “Contact Cleaner” sprayed in the right place, would probably make it “as good as new”.
My Microosft Sidewinder II - Force Feedback Joystick suffered from this, after some time of Non Use, before I started to use it again on MSFS.
A quick Spray, and it has been “as good as new” ever since.
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Thank you everyone for input, very enlightening. In particular it was eye opening to read the note of @HB427112 who explained that aircraft are controlled by pressures, but also everyone who noted that aircraft don’t react with sudden attitude changes for minuscule movements of the controls - this is exactly what I wanted to understand.
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The problem is the sensitivity. Full elevator deflection requires probably 5 or more inches of movement in a real plane. On a joystick it’s maybe 1 inch. So everything will be 5x (or more) as sensitive. You either need a proper yoke like the Honeycomb alpha or adjust the sensitivity curve.
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@bitplenty You’re welcome.
@hst12 lkowgli is completely correct. I can only add that real aircraft have small adjustable tabs on the control surfaces that, while on the ground, you can bend a little to adjust that “default stable flight regime”. They are like trim surfaces, but more permanent.
An interesting point about joystick travel. I have the Hotas One and T.1600m here side by side, the T.1600m seems to have about twice the movement range. I’ve only had it a few days and the first time I tried to rotate in the FBW A320 it caught me out as I had to pull back further than what I was used to.
Most joysticks have a considerable lower range of travel than a real stick or yoke, hence you need a negative sensitivity curve to compensate this lack of travel/size.
With my Gladiatior NXT and T16000M I’m using a -30% sensitivity on all axis and aircraft response is pretty realistic around the important neutral position. Not twitchy at all.
