How useful are flight sims for learning to fly actual planes?

Same. I’ll never fly into an airport irl, without simming it first. It is CRAZY how familiar you can become with an area in MSFS. I used to pre-fly routes to pick visual waypoints for my dual cross-country flights. “Ok, we’re gonna split two lakes in a couple miles” (CFI was like ”What are you talking abo…. Ooooh. Those lakes!”)

Also, PilotEdge allowed me to work the comms on my first lesson.

BUT… the OP needs to recognize where it’s different, and stay away from “training” those areas. E.g. ground roll / yaw, yoke travel, braking, etc…

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Guilty as charged.

Oh man, you’re way too kind! I’m just a big old aviation (and weather, geography, history, music…) nerd that likes to spread nerdiness around. The sim has been an awesome platform to discover, educate, and geek out over these things with folks who are into similar stuff. The fact we get to do that while simulating flight is amazing.

Thanks for the shoutout! :hugs:

I appreciate the nerdiness! It’s nice having people around that can bring the real world flying and sim flying together.

It used to be we were not allowed to discuss real world aviation on here.

There are vast opportunities for either to enrich the other. I wish that gap were bridged more often, and in a more official capacity.

On that topic: PilotEdge has been doing an Oshkosh dry run with the real Oshkosh controllers for a few years now. It gives both the controllers and any pilots planning to fly in there a chance to practice in advance.

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Can you elaborate on that one?

He means only using the yoke for the roll (bank) axis while using only the trim to control your pitch. It’s a common habit in the sim since the trim is much more precise than (cheap) sim yokes, so people tend to gravitate to it for its precision. You ideally use the yoke for pitch first and foremost, then adjust the trim to be appropriate for the current airspeed and flap setting.

For example, climb out at 80 kts: adjust pitch to maintain 80, then adjust trim so it stays there on its own. Entering cruise: Pitch for straight and level, then adjust trim so it stays there on its own. The trim shouldn’t be what transitions you from the nose up attitude to straight and level, the yoke should. The trim should just hold you at that attitude once you get there.

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Yep, that is it exactly. For example in the sim if you are climbing or descending and should be straight and level, people tend to reach for the trim and tweak it.

In real life this is not optimal and you can find yourself chasing the trim and end up with PIO. You should be adjusting attitude with power and yoke to fix the issue and THEN adjust trim to remove any pressure from the yoke.

Trim is NOT a primary control and should not be used as one.

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Thank you both. That makes sense. I tend to hold the yoke under tension longer than I probably should before trimming.

This is a really great thread! I’m not a pilot, and don’t claim to be one, but I do have a good deal of experience simming going way, way back to the original subLogic Apple ][+ version of Flight Simulator. My view has always been that sims do a very good job teaching you the concepts of aviation, and let you put that knowledge in practice in a somewhat realistic environment. And with the greater fidelity and complexity of modern sims, they also are great (as noted here) at familiarizing you with various flight instruments and how they work, and the general layout of a given plane’s cockpit (if the model is good, that is). But they don’t teach you to fly an actual real-world aircraft. There’s simply too much missing from even the best sim – other than the professional-scale $500k sims that airlines use for training – to give you the real-life experiences of flying.

And I’m pretty confident in that belief, even though I’ve never flown an airplane. Because I’m aware of all the things that I’m not getting from the sim that should be essential info points for a real pilot. Take the trim discussion above – MSFS will NEVER simulate trimming an aircraft in a way that will train you to do it in real life, because you don’t get the pressure feedback on the yoke from the aerodynamics of the aircraft’s pitch. I recently changed joysticks, and the new one has a ton of input switches such that for the first time I’ve been able to map pitch trim to a rocker switch. And… OMG is pitch trim a crutch. It’s the lazy way to fix your descent issues (and often just makes things worse). IRL, I know you’d trim to remove pressure on the yoke, and that’s the only reason you’d trim. But the sim basically lets you use it as fine elevator control, which it absolutely is NOT.

Another example: I almost never do run-ups. Because except for a couple of payware aircraft, no MSFS plane is ever going to have a bad magneto, or a failing oil pump, or any mechanical defect unless you tell the sim to give it one. In the sim, it’s really just a waste of time to do run-ups to check for problems you absolutely know do not exist. If you did that IRL, though, you are literally betting your life that the engine is fine. It would be epic stupidity to skip the run-up, or the walkaround, or any of the other safety checks you should always be doing pre-flight. But again, the sim doesn’t really let you do that, and even if it did, there’s never anything wrong unless you’ve chosen to have something wrong. (Again, there are exceptions to that now, which is a good thing.)

My daughter asked me once while I was flying in MSFS, “so… does this mean you can really fly a plane?” And I wanted to give her a good answer, so I thought about it, and this is what I told her: If I was in an emergency situation where I had to land an aircraft, my sim experience means I’d have a decent chance to walk away from that landing. And if the plane was an A320, I feel like I know enough about the systems of the aircraft that I’d have a decent chance to set the autopilot well enough (with ATC assistance, and with the airspace cleared out for me) to get the plane in a position for the autolanding system to probably work. Maybe. But that’s it. I’d have a better chance of success in those emergencies than a complete novice who’s never touched a flight simulator. But fly a plane properly? Or well? No way. There’s just too much that the sim doesn’t prepare you for.

It does just fine. It’s not perfect, but if you hold the yoke between your thumb and two forefingers the way my flight instructor taught me, you can feel the spring pressure in the yoke and trim it away (I have a Honeycomb Alpha and Bravo). At issue above isn’t how people are trimming the pressure away with the trim wheel but that they aren’t flying with the yoke at all and are reaching for the trim instead.

That’s your choice, not a fault of the sim. Myself, I only ever fly the stock steam gauge C172 in the game and I always do all my checklists, including the full runup. It’s part of flying. I don’t allow myself to cut corners in real life or in the sim. Wax on, wax off. My reactions and habits have to be right when I need them.

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An excellent point, practice as if its real, because when it is, muscle memory will take over. Its when you skip steps that problems happen… :).

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