How will msfs compete with xp12?

I look forward to seeing your screenshots.

Oh and while you’re at it, I’d be interested in how you think both programs depict turbulence etc.

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Unless I am missing something would that not work as both sims do not do Historical weather. You would get tonight’s weather Live with this mornings time (assuming you are going to set the time to the same time in the train picture)

As I understand it, both Sims will still give you 8pm’s Live weather regardless of what time you set the sim too?

What I mean is I will configure static weather that reflects the METAR, and see how they both do. A historical METAR if you will. I have the benefit of actually witnessing it so I know how they both do.

Time, and day if possible in the case of XP will be set correctly to match the sun’s position in the sky.

In the case of XP, I did some test flights at the same airport, one that is included in the XP demo. Both had live weather. When flying over the rolling hills nearby, in MSFS I encountered mechanical turbulence, with up as well as downdraughts as I flew over the ridges, and hills.

In XP I kept a close eye on my VSI, and got nothing whatsoever. This is what I remember from 2020, the last time I flew XP11.5. Flying in MSFS, and actually getting thrown about felt like a game changer to me.

I repeated the tests with weather presets, with the same wind speed, and direction with the same results. The major difference there was how different the crosswind landings, and takeoffs felt, and showed how much stronger the weathervaning in MSFS is compared to XP, which required hardly any rudder input.

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But its nice to have a choice. Have both and use both. Again, fly what you choose. There is no wrong or right if you have enjoyable time.

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Half working? May I suggest the Instrument Flight Training Handbook, free on the FAA website.

I hardly belive that. Where does this number come from?
Alone, Steamdb estimates with its most pesimistic estimation around 230k - 270k owners.
https://steamdb.info/app/269950/graphs/

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Couldnt agree more. I have both, will use both, and enjoy both😀

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I see, well you will get that now XP-12. Al though not as exaggerated and please note I use the word exaggerated in the sense I am not sure what is realistic, but I can tell you yesterday when I was flying around 2NC0 in MSFS the turbulence over the mountains in the Sling was a bit much turning off FS realistic helped as If that was for real I would of pulled the CAPS lol, I think there was 4Kt winds. I tried the same in X-plane 12 but with a heavier plane I think the Rv4 might be heavier anyway and it was not as pronounced, but I did get a slight wing drop leaving the runway and going over the crest of the hill, So not sure really.

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I started MSFS back with the XBox release. So the only number I have seen consistently thrown around is 42,000. But I admit, I kept thinking “How do 3rd party developers even survive in a market that small”. But no one has ever refuted the number, so I have always thought 42,000 was it. But your number does make a lot more sense. 42K is way too low for 3rd party airport developers to survive with, because market penetration for any airport is going to be smaller.

If using say PMDG or Fenix with Vatsim, what parts of IVR are missing in this sim that we get in XP?

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And yet they somehow did just that for years when MSFS didn’t even exist.

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42,000 users for XP 11 is possible though, and that would explain why add-ons in XP are generally more expensive than MSFS. Look at the Flight Factor A320, it’s $90 USD, much more expensive than the Fenix A320. That’s because there just aren’t enough users for XP 11.

For developers making add-ons for MSFS though, they can lower the price and make way more money at the same time. PMDG made a killing for their DC6 and also made a killing on their 737 in MSFS.

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42000 x $60 is 2,500,000.

As a minimum, I could live with that, AND pay a small team.

Not fogetting the commercial sales, FAA stuff, consultation etc.

All in all, comfortable living I think.

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What kind of math are you doing? What matters to sustain a business is what you earn per-month vs your expenses in salaries and many other things. If you get 42000 users every 5 years to re-purchase your product then you are making about $500.000 per year, round it to $50.000 per month, to that you need to add whatever you get in “new sales”. My math is not working like yours with $50.000 + new sales per month your team needs to be really small for the business to continue.

You miss the point about the main things, most of what you are saying was on XP11 and with add-ons. Tell people to buy new MSFS at 60$ in 4 years, and if most of the things was already there with add-ons after few years, you will get much louder and tons of negative!

What are you talking about I dont understand? In 4 years X-Plane could have google earth like MSFS has bing maps! We just dont know, MS could pull the plug on MSFS we dont know, they did it once before.

My point is, in the here and now. I dont think I missed any point. X-Plane is not a competitor to MSFS accept in our heads. Austin made that very clear, and he also said Asobo have absolutely nailed it, although HE FEELS photogrammetry is not for X-Plane even if he could. He will either regret that or go back on it or it will just be the case.

Add-ons?? Maybe we are talking XP-12 which you dont need those add-ons for in XP12. XP11 is irrelevant in what I said and XP12 has improved a lot of XP11 so?

Please explain more.

Not sure how Austin would pay for his Lancair Evolution with sales like that.

Checked and the 3 available are around $1 million
LANCAIR EVOLUTION Aircraft For Sale - 3 Listings | Controller.com

Those closest I could get in XP was to use Cirrus clouds.

With MSFS its its less simple. You can’t choose cloud types, such as adjusting coverage, density, and scatter. There are also three cloud layers, so I simply set the third cloud layer right to the top with 0 coverage so it has no visual effect.

Because you cannot choose a cloud type, the cloud coverage is a function of the preset that you choose, so if I choose Clear Skies, then its a percentage of clear. Overcast, and its a percentage of overcast, and so on.

Clear skies gives you 2 clear skies cloud layers, and one overcast.
Few gives you 2 few layers, and one overcast.
Scattered gives me two Scattered, and one Overcast.
Broken gives me Broken, Scattered, and Overcast.
Overcast is three Overcast.

I supposed the closest was Scattered, so I’ll play with that. I may save out some custom weather files by name, and see if I can hand edit a file to give me a Few, and Scattered in the same file.

Initial results are pretty disappointing for Scattered+Scattered.

Messing around with coverage can give you better results. Higher leading to close results.

My understanding of coverage, as well as scatter is a little woolly. Coverage appears to adjust the amount of cloud that appears, which makes sense. But scatter works really strangely, its a percentage, but it creates more cloud when set in the middle. The shot above has scatter se to 49.14%.

So I think here the weather interface itself is a clear win in some areas for XP, but MSFS is obfuscated by using terms different to what you would see in a METAR, and/or not having any real control in the UI of what clouds you are setting, though at least base, and top work.

The graphical representation is better in MSFS though. I’ll see now what I can do with the weather files.

And to add to this, in the interface cloud top/bottom are in feet, but metres in the file! :exploding_head:

File also has absolutely not reference to cloud types. It looks like the sim changes the cloud type based on the difference between the top, and the bottom.

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In terms of MS upping game, this is definitely one area. Here’s my biggest peeves…

  1. WIND ! Getting the correct wind & weather….

  2. CLOUDS ! … Have you noticed how bumpy they are in RL ? Suggest - Not fake “turbulence” but volumetric clouds with bumps in them from cumulus to CB’s. The drizzle of stratus, better icing. Thermals and lift…

  3. Please God let us tweak the rendering options like exposure or make a mod that does it. All lighting, rendering, post processing, color grading ….

For now, I am in PMDG heaven with a Sim that I have had since v4, dreading update X however……

I feel that the squirrels in LR are still busy… but had to come up with something …… :slight_smile:

I agree, But who has the time or funds to do both?