I hope I’m creating this topic at the right place. This is not about any specific aircraft or aircraft system, it is about theory.
I’d like to create this topic so people with questions about proper flight plan building can get their answers to step up their flights from a departure and arrival airport and let ATC sort out the rest. I bet real life ATC wouldn’t approve such a flight plan anyway. So if you have a question about the topic, then shoot and hopefully someone knowledgeable will answer.
My question is about how one builds an IFR flight plan from an airport that does not have published SID procedures. Do you just take nearby waypoints that are first in line with the runway, then in the general direction of the en-route airway you would like to use later? If so, do you assign altitudes to those waypoints for yourself?
Thanks in advance
Hello,
this isn’t easy, this depends simply to existing ATC services, terrain around departure airport and also regional rules. In sim? Not possible probably via in sim ATC as not functional as expected. In case of your only flight in sim (you’re curious how to do that), I can recommend start via VFR, do under VFR conditions reach of expected first IFR route waypoint and change to IFR, simply safety first. Under IFR and restrictions with specific IFR routes, you can be in safe. In real world and with airliners is simply expected that ATC services with radar are existed, so radar departures services can be provide to you.
On other side, there are many similar Topics already where all PROs like Rico??? or Snail and other PROs can give you recommendations, answers to your specific question, no doubts.
The specific airport was Duluth. It has a tower, it has published approaches but no standard departures. So it’s actually not even sim related, but still I guess there are airplanes departing Duluth, so there must be a solution to leaving a controlled airport in IFR that has no published departures, which then could be used regarding all such airports
@ Tuffbull7923
ICAO?
For sure to look at, I’m curious 
No other ATC services only TWR? From where you have that informations only about TWR?
If you mean KDLH, there is also Departure ATC service with Radar, hope i see correctly so then this is clear that radar departure is provided to Pilots, as I expect generally and also said.
It’s KDLH. It has published approaches, but no SIDs or STARs. Link1 or Link2 or Link3
No amount of googling gave other procedures. But I guess it’s not unique, or is it?
So the question still stands, when planning an IFR flight from there how would the part of the flight plan look like from the airport to the en-route airways?
You have answer already no links to KDLH are required.
I don’t understand you still asking for help, all was said previously in my posts.
That’s what puzzles me. There is ATC to coordinate you, but still you have to have a flight plan that you file, so how would that look like?
You mean inside sim?
As I said with ATC, this is specific situation also if I good see, there are restrictions with also terrain and depended to used runway of course. If you still want answer with sim, you can fill your IFR FPL to any required first waypoint and pay attention to obstacles/altitude. Your rest of FPL can be normal.
The sim accepts virtually anything, I’d like to know how a flight plan should be filed preflight from Duluth. For example from KDLH I want to get to J21 towards GEP. Do you include waypoints in your flight plan or file it as KDLH->J21 and let ATC give you details once actually asking for clearance?
If GEP is your first waypoint then FPL can be like:
GEP J21 … rest of FPL, no dep and arr airports inside FPL pls.
If I could say to alternative FPL posted after my sugestion:
DLH J21 GEP …
But here I want be careful because due Departure radar following, correct turn toward DLH can be problem, especially with rwy27. We can see clear sit on route via DLH but ATC then in case of airliners need put aircraft to N area of airport to do right turn to sit on J21 via DLH, this can be maybe not expected. So in case of departure from rwy21/03 it is mostly expected to use DLH for FPL, with rwy03 is expected left or right turn to sit at J21 over DLH. As I said, here departure radar service handle traffic flow so it is uppon their responsibility. With rwy27/09 I don’t expect use DLH but heading turn to sit exactly on J21 with specific course, closer to expected aircraft heading after departure turn. On other side, I don’t have nothing to this alternative, it is ok also.
1 Like
Thanks! So if there are no published departure, you just omit that from the flight plan and will be assigned exact route once int he hands of ATC.
I will not mark a solution, so if anyone have other flight planning questions that are not device or aircraft related, this topic may be further used.
1 Like
Pls read update of my post.
Seems like a logical execution, I might check if KDLH tower is available on live atc, so I can listen in how it’s done IRL.
1 Like
If you have this option,
pls be kind tell us link or post some infos later, very appreciated for that link if possible.
If I could say still, simply generally all traffic flow is expected be handled as time is money, so I don’t expect DLH in other cases as mandatory waypoint, only rwy21/03 maybe. I expect definitelly vectors or resume own navigation J21 DLH-GEP.
KDLH tower is available on LiveATC but no departures are planned in the next 3ish hours, so I won’t be able listen to a RL example any time soon.
In this case,
you can check history hours and set date and time (30mins long???) of stream.
Will do. In the meantime another on topic question about flight plans: you mentioned earlier that “no departure and arrival airports in the flight plan”. Is that some kind of a rule? I’ve been scouring the net on IFR flight planning in the past few days but this is the first time I’ve seen that.
I try explain like this,
simply, if I fill FPL (original paper list f.ex.) then Origin and Destination also Alternate are filled at specific own fields, route is then simply route and i don’t expect set there in this case Origin and Destination. That’s all. No problem to check local Country rules or f.ex. EuroControl in this case as me, i expect this is clear.
I’ve been scouring the net on IFR flight planning in the past few days
And where you saw that plans?
2 Likes
I was looking for guides on how to do flight planning, but all the articles I found were talking about SID, en-route, STAR, approach. Which seemed to cover it all, so I decided to try and plan a flight from Duluth (where I last landed ingame) and got immediately derailed as I couldn’t find SIDs…
I don’t want complain about IRL procedures exactly but,
just one logical tip in case I fill FPL at origin airport office f.ex. at that time what data I have available as Pilot? I know my Origin and Destination and expected route. Weather? Yes but what SID sets me ATC at time of request of clearance depends to more factors All can be changed from minute. No reason include SID, correct? Ok, next to ARR procedure. In this time at office how can I be sure that at time I’ll arrive to IAF or arrival procedure generally, I’ll have permission to fly my STAR what I’ve defined at my Origin airport office? That time is looong way still far and i can’t be sure about that. All will be set at my arrival distance and ATC set that depended to actual weather state and due other requirements, maybe my maybe ATC. Include STAR to FPL? No reason to do 
2 Likes