I spent my entire working life, more than 50 years, in military aviation as an engineer, working on everything from DHC Beavers to Blackburn Buccaneers, V Bombers to Typhoons, fast jets to rotary and nearly all of that time at, what the RAF defined as First Line (AKA The Sharp End). I did all of that in many places across the world and never once, not once, did I see taxiway and runway lighting on poles, not even in Scandinavia or, it has to be said, in the USA!! Now, I understand that in certain environments, where snow lies deep and aircraft operate on compacted snow, that this style of lighting is vital but I suggest that is a very small percentage of airfields across the globe.
In the UK, if we get two inches of snow we are paralysed and I spent many an unhappy hour early on in my career, clearing small depths of snow and ice from airfield operating surfaces using all sorts of implements and machines â shovels, brooms, contraptions with two jet engines attached to and being pushed along by a fuel bowser and even helicopters.
Every time I taxi out of my local (military) airfield in the sim and have to pass over one of these pole mounted lights in the middle of a taxiway junction I cringe and wait for the crunch as the nose/tail wheel passes directly over it, or I instinctively try to manoeuvre around it. Can they be got rid of
Would you mind to rename the topic and move it to the bugs/issues/wishes area so we can officially agree with you instead of only saying âyouâre so rightâ?
1 Spiky trees at <2000 ft. While I really do appreciate the work that has gone into the terrain, the UK countryside is soft and lush and mostly deciduous. I donât know if there are mods on the PC but on the Xbox spiky trees bug me, especially a single one in the middle of a field. I donât know why.
2 Green roads/motorways.
3 When spawning on an approach (landing practice) the RPM is maxxed out with the engine screaming and full flaps deployed. Not the end of the world but who thought that was a good idea?
I can share an example of the elevated taxi lights haphazardly placed that @Albatross75160 is talking about. This screenshot is taken at YSTW on TWY Delta. I am keen to see these fixed with World Update 7⊠fingers crossed
These elevated lights are everywhere in the sim. Iâve kind of got used to them⊠but now that itâs come up, I agree theyâre annoying. Canât see anything changing anytime soon though.
I accept, as I said, that in certain operating environments the elevation of the lights etc is essential but I suggest that it is the minority of airfields/airports across the globe where that is the case. I donât even recall them at Goose Bay. Although, where they need to be used they are an important feature I am sure that they are never placed in the centre of taxiway/threshold junctions
Well done Asobo! I am impressed by the great improvement to my home airport YSTW. This screenshot is the same position as my last post in this thread.
Thank you.
agreed - the lights on poles seems like a weird choice. I have flown out of airports and I dont see lights on polesâŠI would rather just have flat floor lights - even if its not realistic - its more realistic than having to roll over them
Elevated lights are not really an issue as these are often used in real world for taxiway edge and sometimes runway edge lights.
The real issue here is with the elevated lights being populated in the middle of movement areas. I would speculate that the algorithm used to autogenerate the static elements on airports may need some tweaking to keep the elevated lights on the edge. Handcrafting the airports will solve the problem of course but this is time intensive.
To answer your question @Albatross75160, no we donât get much snow in NSW. There will be a few days in year where a light dusting will fall on the higher elevations and then quickly melt away.
In real world, the choice of elevated over inset edge lights would be based on cost and practical reasons. Vegetation will be an issue on the taxiway edge where an inset light is used. This could be controlled by maintaining a clear area from the light or by widening a sealed shoulder on the taxiway but this is a costly affair. The expected cost of an elevated light is about $1000USD and an inset is about $1800USD. To put that into perspective; consider 1km of taxiway with a light spacing of 60m which will give us about 17 lights on each side or a total of 34 lights. Thatâs $34,000USD for elevated or $61,200USD for inset. If I was paying for an airport, I know what my preference will be.
If you are interested have a look at this Airfield Lighting Essentials document which has a very good technical explanation of how airfield lighting works.
Let me start by saying that for me this is not a bug, the original header was âItâs Not a Bug - But it Bugs Meâ and I stick with that. I was asked to move to this Forum so I did.
In a career in (military) aviation spanning 55 years and 3 continents I have never seen raised taxiway lighting. I am aware that it does exist and is in position, wherever it is used, for perfectly practical (I do watch âIce Airport Alaskaâ ) reasons but I suggest, again, that the number of environments where it is deemed a necessity are in the minority and the default position in the sim should be surface mounted lighting. Another point here is that all airfields seem to have lighting whereas in many cases there is none. I recently flew (in the sim) into Sanday on the Orkney Islands for the first time, where there are lights on poles!. Pooleyâs Flight Guide detail for Sanday is brief âLighting - Nilâ
I would also suggest that, in real life, where lights on poles are not a necessity the additional costs that you postulate would very quickly be amortised by the significant reduction in maintenance costs over the lifetime of any facility. I am not sure that I accept the argument about encroachment of vegetation being a factor as vegetation is easy to manage with surface mounted lights either. In the early years of my RAF career the grass was allowed to grow on airfields and would be cut back but once a year. When it (very quickly) became apparent that the populations of Curlew, Lapwing etc were not compatible with jet aircraft operations it then became the practice to allow local contractor, usually farmers, to cut the grass regularly for sileage using gang mowers and and other machinery. There was never damage to taxiway or runway surface mounted lighting. A long ago incident whilst serving at KAF Eastleigh, just outside Nairobi, where the aircraft were all piston engined, vegetation on the airfield was about 4ft high and the lighting was surface mounted, there was a grass fire on the airfield and the wildlife that departed the area was unbelievable, including amongst other things lions!! I was a wee bit more careful around the airfield perimeters after that.
To conclude, you are absolutely right in that this is primarily an issue only when the lights appear in inappropriate positions - nonetheless it is a factor bugs me
The thesis of this thread is kind of hilarious. Raised runway and taxiway lights are used all over the world, airports big and small. You might find them more elevated in some regions, and some countries may favor flush-mount lighting over others. In the US, theyâre almost always raised, except when theyâre inside the marked edges of the movement surface (like centerline and touchdown zone lighting, as well as when large runways intersect). Meanwhile, smaller airports tend to have zero flush-mount lights.
The sim, however, does get the taxiway lights wrong a lot of the time - plopping them in the movement surface, as postulated upthread. And the light standards are one-size-fits-all and do tend to be too large for smaller airports.
But to say every airport uses flush-mount light is far from the truth.
Examples:
This is a 5 for 5 sample from US airports of various sizes and regions - only one of them gets regular snow, three of them get almost zero snow, ever.
Youâre right an old thread but something that still bugs me to this day! I only visited to USAF bases during my career, Andrews AFB, Washington DC with a Tornado display team and Nellis AFB for Red Flag exercises.
I donât see lights on poles there either. Neither I nor you know the true spread of lights on poles but they are most definitely not ubiquitous. I maintain that the majority of airfields across the globe do not have them - but who does know? I suspect nobody
But the lights are still on poles. Do you have a lot of snow in NSW? Whether or not it is a positive for sure.
donât know about now).