I (personally) didn’t ever really ‘get’ the desire specifically for ‘study level’ planes, but after having been using the sim quite a lot since release, and now having finally started training for my PPL in real life (on a Cessna 172), I’ve found myself slightly in want.
I never ‘played’ X-Plane (or other sims), and so I don’t know much about the 3rd party devs that lots of others recognise from other simulators, so don’t even really know where to look. Although I’ve done a quick search online and come up empty handed.
A few things I’ve noticed that aren’t true to live for the inbuilt C172 (I use the non-G1000) are:
Stall characteristics - the sim plane stalls too aggressively, wing dip is more severe, altitude loss is worse than real life
Affect of wind/thermals - it seems in real life you get thrown around a lot more than in the sim, unless you really crank the wind up
Rudder is too effective on the ground when taxying
Rudder is not effective enough in the air
RPM/attitude/airspeed differences - this could just be the plane I use, I don’t know, but in real life I need lower RPM to correctly maintain a given airspeed
General differences with maintaining attitude - seems easier in real life to trim, whereas in the sim it’ll climb a bit, slow down, descend a bit, rinse repeat
To be clear, I’m not complaining about the offering in the sim, I’m totally happy to pay extra for a true study level version of the specific plane I’m learning in. I’m just curious if anyone either has the same experience, or knows if there’s any study level cessnas on the horizon … or is the in-game C172 already basically considered to be ‘study level’, and so no one can be bothered to design a whole new one from scratch, which will end up basically being the same?
A2A makes a study level 172 for other flight sims, but they haven’t released any aircraft for MSFS yet, though they have said on their forum that a Comanche is in the works. A lot of people consider A2A the gold standard when it comes to study level aircraft. But again, no idea when they will release a 172.
Always interesting to see RL comparisons, great opening !
I’m not a pilot, but the easy taxiing around I noticed… also with C152, it feels like there is a steer instead of a rudder (airflow). Also with very low speeds and propellor off, you can keep steering around quite accurately ! Good to know that it is not so easy in reality
btw I’ve a tip for better handling of rudder during takeoff. Sometimes rudder takes a large step unexpectedly. This can be solved. Before you start, go external camera and zoomin on the rudder. Then move it left and right, until it goes smoothly. Leave it in the middle. Return cockpit & fly. This procedure I use for short airstrips and 172. Also with taildraggers (anywhere)
FYI, both the aircraft you mentioned have nose wheel steering. Most aircraft do not steer with the rudder. There are some exceptions that have either a castering nosewheel or tailwheel, but not all that common.
True, but the steering is very sloppy at low speeds, requires FULL ‘rudder’ deflection to make fairly gentle turns. This is kinda the case in the sim, but it just oversteers.
In the air on the other hand, tiny rudder movements make a huge difference (in real life), and that’s under-represented in the sim.
As mentioned, A2A general aviation aircraft are the gold standard. Personally, I’d keep practicing and learning procedures with the default 172 until A2A releases one.
I will give you the insensitive rudder in flight. I agree it needs to be a lot more effective.
But…
I cannot agree here. This may be true if in an aircraft without nose or tail wheel steering but not otherwise. If you find the need to use full deflection in the sim, I would have a look at controller sensitivities. I generally use very small movements to taxi.
FYI @PPSJAY@N6722C
Ever hear your instructor say, “KEEP YOUR TOES OFF THE BRAKES!” or “HEALS ON THE FLOOR!!” ?
It is poor airmanship to use brakes for anything other than stopping except when absolutely necessary.
Differential braking is OK for tight maneuvering at low speeds but your mechanic will hate you otherwise.
Proper throttle use and speed management go hand in hand. If you feel the need to brake to control speed on the ground you didn’t plan far enough ahead. With a steerable wheel on the ground, there should be no need to use the brakes under normal taxi.
Just an old pilot handing out a pee pee whack… Take it as you might.
Have you ever replaced the brakes in your 172?
Over the years I can usually spot a pilot in a rented aircraft as compared to an aircraft owner. If maintenance is coming out of your own pocket, SOP changes after the first few trips into the AME’s hanger.
haha @willisxdc funny really I didn’t know that. Just supposed it would be done with rudder but C172 is indeed not one of these planes there’s really a steering wheel under it.
You got me backwards here. I was saying that in the sim, you NEVER need full rudder, but in real life, you do.
Infact, my first obstacle to taxying in real life was just this. Instructor telling me “any turn, full rudder, tighten with brake if needed”, and there I am doing only half-rudder, wondering why it’s going in a straight line!
We have a very narrow and short runway, for takeoff we have to take every feet possible, so we even back-taxi from the holding point to get about 30ft more of the runway. For that we taxi to the absolute right edge of the runway and turn left to line-up. Impossible without a bit of braking to get the C172 to turn fast without loosing runway lenght.
I do it exactly like this in the sim and it is very close to the realworld behavior. So im pretty happy with that.
Dave, congratulations on starting the lessons. You will love it.
Just a couple of points. I recently spent a bunch of hours jumping back and forth between the sim 172 (steam and G1000) and a 1972 Skyhawk, a friend of mine owns, testing the accuracy of the sim.
Keep in mind a couple things when comparing your real world experience with the sim.
First of all, the sim does not model control pressures. Control response is a direct result of what you do with your controls and the sensitivities you have set, combined with your technique in using them. I use 0% sensitivities and rely on stick “pressure” in my hand. Much like the pressure you use in the real aircraft. Try not to “move” the controls. You will find you get a much more real “feel”.
Second, the configuration of the real aircraft and any wing tip hardware installed will change its characteristics. Unless you are flying the exact model with the same accessories as the sim aircraft, there will be differences in handling. Even the age of the aircraft will change its responses. You have not flown solo stalls and spins yet, I assume. You will find that stalls and spins without an instructor will be very different.
Every aircraft, even identical models and years, has its own personality and you will learn that they will fly differently, sometimes very differently. The only practice that you can reliably transfer from the sim is procedures.
Many of the discrepancies you noted are SIM issues, not air model. Many will be addressed and tweaked over time.
I was just about to say that. Everything else will not transfer well into the real world. No matter if A2A or default plane. The C172 is good enough. But of course i would love to have the A2A 172 Trainer in MSFS.
However, in this thread we are discussing the merits of training within the sim for a real life student pilot. With the number of hours I have spent, both in training, and doing the training, I would be remiss if I didn’t take the opportunity to instill good airmanship habits.
@N6722C
The brakes will wear out if you have the Accusim addon.
Well, here is a good one to really throw off any sim training.
Baro setting in the C172 in particular and all GA panes in General.
AP is slaved off the Transponder’s baro (not is own adjustable baro), !!
The systems only APPEAR to work correctly when not at Std Pressure, because using the B key (lazy !!), sets ALL the Baros, including the Transponder Baro – which is meant to remain displaying FL, not Altitude.
Once you see this, your MSFS Asobo C172 SIM flying will never be the same !!!
But then, who cares about the Baros, or the AP altitude hold, when admiring all the outside Eye Candy !!
MSFS is raising a generation of Diabetic MSFS Pilots !!!
there’s really a steering wheel under it.
