Just Flight Piper PA-28-161 Warrior II

Thx. I think it’s how you described. Noticed after my last flight that this little mod out of marketplace was missing

1 Like

I have issues when taking off or landing with crosswinds. The aircraft fells really slippery even with low speed winds, something similar happened with the fenix A320 some months ago.

Also, it is impossible to stall the aircraft, the maximum I get is a constant descent at 60kt.

Am I the only one?

1 Like

I flew it last night, after resetting the htail area to 0 instead of 35.9, and it felt like I had better control on pitch in the flare, but I never tried a stall. Did you try both a power off, and power on stall?

It’s going to be an interesting day, when a space debris cascade takes out all GPS satellites one day and all the VOR / NDB stations are gone as well. VFR for everybody! :grin:

Where was this suggested?

Further up in this thread I think. The idea was that it has a 35.9ft² stabilator, so no real non-moving horizontal stabiliser area. On some PA-28’s the htail_area was set to 0.1. In the Warrior it is set to 35.9. So instead of 0.1 I just set it to 0.

1 Like

I haven’t tried it, but I assume it keys the elevator leading edge from the htail position, even if the htail area is zero?

I assume so, as I don’t think there is a similar setting for the elevator. I’d have to check.

I just had a quick look. So there are these two for “htail”:

htail_pos_lon
htail_pos_vert

But I cannot see similar settings for elevator.

For “htail_area” it states:

This single surface will have the area of htail_area and elevator_area combined.

So with “htail_area” set to 0, and “elevator_area” set to 35.9", we get still get 35.9 for the whole thing, not 35.9 * 2, which we get with the current unmodified Warrior.

2 Likes

:rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl: imagine how many newer pilots going “oh sh…” flicking through youtube vor tutorials mid flight

Eeek!!! Yeah, that’s a problem, lol. Thanks for the research (opening up .cfg files now).

I wonder if this was an issue before and caused “twitchiness” for those who were complaining about it, I can check..

1 Like

Out of the Arrow, the two Turbo Arrows, and the Warrior, two of them have 0.1, and 35.9 set, and the other two have 35.9, and 35.9 set. I forget what the other one is but the Warrior is one of the doubled up ones.

Definitely a case of “Does my tail look big in this?”. :slight_smile:

1 Like

I don’t know if stabilators with anti-servo tabs can be fully, correctly modeled. It just doesn’t do what it’s designed to do, given the sim’s limitations. You can get close and emulate the effects, to be sure, but it’s kind of a different animal.

1 Like

Laughing :rofl:

1 Like

To your point, setting the htail_area to .1 may be important for the flight model to work properly. Setting it to zero may tell MSFS to ignore the elevator_area term, knowing how programmers think… sigh. “What do you mean? Why would anyone want to do that? Why can’t I just ignore the term if I don’t have a horizontal tail, how can I have an elevator if I don’t have a horizontal tail?.. Oh”

2 Likes

It’s weird, though, because that could create a hinge point that’s farther forward than the stabilator pivot point. By definition, an all-moving stab will have a leading edge that changes vertical position (which comes into play with propwash, downwash, and flap config).

If it works with 0 htail, I’d run with that. It’s just weird to think about a moving leading edge and the way (I’d bet) that’s not taken into account in the modeling. All sorts of dynamics at play.

2 Likes

With or without the hstab, unless there’s the ability to say area in front of and area behind the pivot point of an elevator, it’s going to be wrong. And that still doesn’t address my other point, does the elevator term even matter without an hstab term? (easy enough to test, I’m just suggesting a possible issue) Better to figure out some ratio of hstab and elevator and pivot position that approximates the action of a stabilator than just plug in the numbers without that configuration ability. The art of engineering approximation…

“Engineering is the art of modelling materials we do not wholly understand, into shapes we cannot precisely analyse so as to withstand forces we cannot properly assess, in such a way that the public has no reason to suspect the extent of our ignorance.” - Dr. A. R. Dykes, British Institution of Structural Engineers.

2 Likes

For airflow, I guess you could enable CFD visualisation, apply full power then move the stabilator up, and down.

I know it doesn’t support CFD, but it could be enabled for this purpose.

On another fight last night I had also tried commenting out that line that sets the elevator scaling.

Trimmed for 60 it was quite possible to trigger the stall horn just before touchdown.

According to FSR I had a few very smooth landings, but on several I had clearly stalled too high, and plopped down rather than a graceful float. Not hard, but certainly enough to spill your drinks. :wink:

Hi guys,

I am trying to figure out if there are any useful changes to cfg files as mentioned above, really for the Warrior here, as that is what I fly irl and I notice the model is very, very twitchy on the ground even with full tanks etc.

I have read all above in detail but some of seems a bit contradictory or not definitive.

If someone could possibly just write:

Do this xxx and it will be improved

or

Don’t bother changing it, it does nothing

It would be much appreciated. :slight_smile:

Twitchy as in rudder or nose wheel control? You could try turning down the sensitivity of your rudder pedals. There are also some options for tweaking static friction.

https://docs.flightsimulator.com/html/Content_Configuration/SimObjects/Aircraft_SimO/flight_model_cfg.htm?rhhlterm=static%20friction&rhsearch=static%20friction

ground_crosswind_effect_zero_speed

This parameter represents the world speed (in ft per second) at which 0% of the crosswind effect is applied to the aircraft.

**ground_crosswind_effect_max_speed **

This parameter represents the world speed (in ft per second) at which 100% of the crosswind effect is applied to the aircraft.

ground_high_speed_steeringwheel_static_friction_scalar

At high speeds, tires are rolling and - depending on their shape and width and how much they are inflated - they will more or less resist rotation or sideways motion. This parameter allows you to define how much a movable wheel resists static friction which goes sideways or resists rotation around the vertical axis.

ground_high_speed_otherwheel_static_friction_scalar

At high speeds, tires are rolling and - depending on their shape and width and how much they are inflated - they will more or less resist rotation or sideways motion. This parameter allows you to define how much a non-movable wheel resists static friction which goes sideways or resists rotation around the vertical axis.

1 Like