Lake Ice Should Not Be Linked to Snow Depth in North-America

[Guillaume3511]

Hi,
With bugs on ice in the Alps and Northern Europe reported in FS2020, Asobo attempted to fix it making ice appears on water boddies at a minimum of 72 cm (28 inches) of snow dept in the area, as mentionned in a Developer Stream in Spring 2024. While it can help in some regions, it worsen the representation of real-world freezing conditions in Northeastern America and Canada, at least.

During winter, lakes commonly freeze as far south as:
States like Iowa, Illinois, and parts of Pennsylvania and Ohio see regular lake freezing.
This is a map of current freezing situation (down to orange areas) :

Source: Widespread loss of lake ice around the Northern Hemisphere in a warming world | Nature Climate Change

Where I live (North 46.80’), we get ice on lakes in end of November to early December to mid-April. This is a picture of CSP8, Lake Sept-Iles water aerodrome on December 15 2024 with ice since two weeks and 4 inches thick:

Now January 28th, we have 24 inches of thick ice on the lake but about 15-20 cm (5 inches) of snow on the ground, so… no ice in the sim, and will wait a long time before getting 72 cm. While I haven’t found ice up to N 51 degrees (see Manicouagan reservoir below, North of CMN5), ice should be way down South in New-England states.

It is also true for State of Maine where I go often to see family in law (around Augusta, KAUG) at Christmas and they usualy have a few inches of ice since at that time.

Canada has been developed in part on bush flying with ski during winter, going lake to lake, and still has a strong culture of ski equiped planes. This is sad that we cannot use them in the sim. It also prevent us to create realistic sceneries with ice fishing, snowmobiles, skaters, etc. Life is active on frozen lakes.

As you know, lake freezing primarily depends on sustained low air temperatures rather than snow accumulation. For a more realistic sim, lake freezing should primarily depend on air temperature trends over time. In the energy efficiency sector, use of «degree day » is widespread to follow trend of temperature over time and energy requirement for buildings. It could be a better way to calculate where ice should appears. Even a simple map/data collection telling where ice should be over time (months) would be better than the current situation in the sim for Northeast US and Canada (and maybe the rest of North-America).

Winter without frozen lakes is just not winter.

[Farsenea]

I totally agree and I would like to add that (maybe with somekind of warning) we should be able to takeoff from an hydrobase with a plane with skis: this is what is happening a lot in the north of Canada / Quebec on frozen lakes and rivers.

[Guillaume3511]

Right, this is a no brainer!

[Guillaume3511]

The issue may extend to other parts of the world. Here in Iceland, lake Myvatn (BIRL) should be frozen in January.

Mývatn

[Guillaume3511]

Another example, Saratoca Lake, New-York, N42’, close to W57 airstrip:

[Guillaume3511]

Ice is coming from the North, slooowly in the sim for February (North of Quebec city)

While at the same time… eh no, 1 1/2 month earlier, planes were landing confortably on the lake at CSP8

[Guillaume3511]

Here is another one : 48VT, lake Champlain marina close to Burlington, Vermont. Frozen since several weeks but not in the sim in the middle of winter.

[Guillaume3511]

Alton Bay Seaplane Base and Ice Runway (B18) in New Hampshire on Feb. 15, 2025. Alton Bay is the only registered ice runway in the contiguous United States.
Source : Redirecting...
This is FS2024 comparizon:

[Guillaume3511]

Well, end of March now and we have still 3 feets of ice on the lake, but haven’t had any of the winter in the sim. Snow is no longer there also while there are still a feet on the ground IRL (CSP8, North of Quebec city)

From my observations this winter in the sim, I would say that from the map in the first post of this thread, we had about half of the red section covered with ice in the sim.

[Guillaume3511]

A year later, this is sad that we cannot land on iced lakes in North-America, appart from going far in the north while lakes are frozen south almost to Boston in real like.

This a water / ice runway near Quebec city (CSP8) and everywhere at that latitude and down south is unfrozen in the game, while there is more than two feets thick ice now in February and is covered by ice since end of November. Can’t fligh in FS around my real life area with a so important difference. Sceneries made to reflect reality are also not possible (as seen).

[Sabre364]

In my neck of the woods, Michigan, all of the lakes, except the Great Lakes, have been frozen for 2 months. I think we’ve had only 1 or two days when the temp was 32 F or above. And none above 40 F. And not one frozen lake in the sim no matter how much snow depth is configured. IMHO there should be a setting that toggles lake ice on/off no matter the weather. Even in warmer conditions, 32-50 F the lakes can be ice covered. This is especially true when the ice is very thick as it takes time to thaw.

[Guillaume3511]

I think Ice presence during winter is a well known data (see first post) and should just be introduced in the sim. Even with a annual decalage of a few days or weeks, it would be better than right now where we are two month late and no ice at all in the sim.

[Guillaume3511]

Here is another example: the Yukon River, near Kaltag (PAKV) is unfrozen in the sim in February while it is frozen IRL starting october-november usualy.

[Sabre364]

Correction. I tried making the snow depth to the max again and there was ice. Not sure why it didn’t work before. Still should be able to have ice even when there is no snow though

[Symonx6]

I can see on that map that even the Alpine arc in ITALY is affected by glaciation.
In reality, what happens in ITALY is this: Alpine lakes above 1,400–1,500 meters freeze every year, while lakes located further south freeze much less often, and it is rare for them to freeze.

For example, Lake Como, where the international seaplane base of Como is located (ICAO code LILY), almost never freezes.
The last freezing dates back to 1947, and it was partial, not total.

In FS2024, I have never seen frozen lakes.
In real life, when you see them from above, they look like huge sheets of glass, completely flat and translucent.
I have never seen anything similar in the simulator.

LAGO DEL TURCHESE … ITALIA.