Just got my 50h in MSFS badge, and it is about time I start learning…
This night I did a night flight with the Diamond DA62, live weather and live time. It was lots of wind, in reality it was about 20 knots from the north/north west when I was landing - the ATC reported “wind 351 at 42”, but the tower (ATC) assigned me landing from the north.
When I landed, for once the landing itself wasn’t half bad, but as I tried to slow down, I guess I was just blown off the runway. I didn’t crash, but in real life it would have been ugly.
I tried to compensate with the rudder, but I didn’t have a chance to keep to the runway.
What would be the right thing to do? Ignore the ATC and approach from the south? Is there a way to actually land downwind? I use assisted ATC (only assistance apart from checklists), but it’s the tower that designates the southbound runway, even though I have strong wind from the north/north west.
I guess I probably had a bit too high speed, but I let the plane touch down on it’s own after flaring. I think if I’d go very slow, that would have been a problem also, in the strong wind.
Any tips how to learn landing in real conditions, not only in perfect calm conditions?
You can search on YT for crosswind landing techniques. If there were strong winds during your landing, AND they were actually simulated to affect the aircraft, then your drift may have been caused by incorrect control application.
When you research crosswind landings, you’ll learn about two common techniques. Wing-low method, and crab method and the associated techniques you use during the actual landing.
After landing with any of these, you are taught to put control input, “steer”, into the wind and maintain centerline of the runway with the rudder. During my primary training, I experienced the same thing as you did from not adding enough control input into the wind on landing. Lucky, I was on a 150’ wide runway and I was able to correct it quickly. And yes, in real life, this can be ugly, if you’re not just lucky to be an embarrassing incident - which you will learn from.
Always give yourself extra speed on approach in strong winds…
The ATC needs some work in FS2020 as well. So it’s a little flaky. Practice landing in all sorts of wind conditions, without using ATC… just keep practicing.
I guess it is not sensible to land in the same direction as the wind? The ATC assigned me to land in the direction of the wind, so I wasn’t very much affected by the wind until I started to slow down. If I interpret the message I got correctly, I had 42 knots of wind - almost the same direction as the runway, the wind a little bit in from my right/starboard - but mostly from behind, so I wouldn’t get much affected until on the ground, and I start to slow down (I guess…).
I want to follow your tip, but I don’t know what you are referring to with “YT”.
Edit: I guess you refer to YouTube. Of course I search, but was hoping for more specific pointers. Lots of rubbish also on YouTube, a bit hard to spot until you wasted lots of time, when you’re unexperienced like me.
Yes, I hear you. Lots of content on YouTube and lots of perspectives. That was quite a wind but if it’s aligned with the runway, you’re right, if you were given a runway that created a tailwind, big problems. I can share what I typically do for normal crosswind landings. First off, you’re absolutely right - Choose a runway most aligned with the wind. Pilots can refuse to accept landing on a runway if it poses a safety risk but I imagine that’s not possible in MSFS with ATC? Not sure as I do not fly with ATC as it’s just very inaccurate and incomplete - I’m also a VATSIM ATC controller as well as real world pilot so my tolerance/expectations may be different.
So a few pointers I’m happy to share:
You may be aware of the different airspeeds relative to flying: Indicated, Calibrated, True, Ground. If so, skip down to the numbered section below. The ones of most importance for landing are Indicated (what your airspeed instrument indicates, and ground, your actual speed across the ground. The two are very related. A simple way to think of this is. If you’re flying in calm air, your airspeed and ground speed will be the same. If you are flying into a headwind, subtract the windspeed from your airspeed and you will have your ground speed - For example 90kts indicated airspeed and 10kt headwind = 80kts ground speed. For a tailwind, it’s the opposite. You ADD the wind to your groundspeed. And in the above scenario, that 90kts airspeed becomes 100kts.
The confusing bit with all this is the airspeed stays the same. It doesn’t care about the wind. Your speed through the air remains the same. What changes is your actual speed across the ground. If you have a raging tailwind, which I suspect you might have, you can nail your approach speed all day long. But your actual speed across the ground will be MUCH HIGHER than normal resulting in a much longer landing than normal. And also, much more difficulty slowing and possibly controlling your aircraft on the ground after landing.
Now for the more “typical” crosswind scenario where you have something coming at you from the front left or right quarter here’s what I do (and other pilots using the wing low method):
Fly the approach as normal using the ailerons to keep aligned with the runway initially. This will typically have you banking into the wind. Let’s say it’s a crosswind from the right - You’re on a 260 heading, wind is from 300 degrees.The airplane will have a natural tendency to crab into or “weathervane” into the wind - you feel this as a yawing moment. As you get closer to the runway you will want to do two things - Keep aligned with the centerline of the runway AND prevent the wind from blowing you off your track to the runway. Now you add in the crosswind corrections
Bank into the wind (right) To compensate for this you will need to use the rudder to counteract this and align with the centerline. So, you will use LEFT rudder to align with the runway. You adjust this all the way down as required to keep the two objectives balanced. NOTE: This creates a hazard as well known as “Cross-controls” which can be dangerous and may be a reason some pilots were taught and practice the “crab” method. I won’t go into that but it essentially has you maintain the crab all the way down then just prior to touchdown, you “kick out the crab” with opposite rudder to align with the centerline. You can watch airliners do this all day long. Check out this video: https://youtu.be/KcCbOa2DXt4
To land, you will actually land with this control input and done well, you will land with the upwind wheel (right main landing gear) first. Then you’ll bring down your left wing to make contact with the left main landing gear then nose - All while maintaining centerline with the rudder.
As SOON as your gear is down, you will put your ailerons INTO the wind. to help reduce tendency for wind to get under your wing and tip you up or blow you off the
runway. Maintain control with rudder and apply braking. You may also raise the flaps to reduce lift further - At least in a GA airplane like a Cessna.
I won’t cover control inputs on the ground as I don’t know if surface wind accurately affects aircraft on the ground yet, but I could be wrong there. Hope this helps a little! Here is a starter video for crosswind landings in GA airplane here: https://youtu.be/aReYq1cAPzM
Don’t even think about landing with such a tailwind.
The maximum tailwind component for a 747 is ‘only’ 15kts and with a small GA aircraft I wouldn’t land with a tailwind of more than 5kts and that only if it’s absolutely necessary.
No. That’s a common misconception among non-pilots. (Steady) wind has absolutely zero effect on an aircraft in the air.
Wind only becomes a factor when ground is being added to this equation = navigation.
Weathervaning only occurs on the ground.
So true - missed point! Weathervaning is on the ground. In the air the airplane still flies “straight” it’s just blown or drifted in the air, like a boat in the water. Thanks for the catch!
If the ATC say You to land with a small GA plane with 42 knots from the back probably is a little bit drunk.
The Pilot in command is the only that decide what to do.
You had activated the wind indication in PFD ?
Good luck.
I guess the ATC is not very good, and adding assisted ATC communication makes it doubly bad. I am using assisted, since I think learning to fly comes before learning the communication.
I think it is possible to request another runway, I’ll check it out if it happens again. Maybe soon I’ll drop the assisted ATC. I do understand that the ATC is flaky.
I thank you so much for the detailed explanations, and the follow up. After I posted, I’ve practiced more in daylight with more moderate crosswinds about 45 degrees from the front, and with with gusts that tightens it to about 40 degrees.
I will practice your techniques, and I will continue my hunt on youtube for good tutorial videos.
With that You are informed about wind knots and direction. Also in real life flying, if no ATC at airfield, is normal to take a fly over the field windsock.
Another system is to evaluate the difference between indicated airspeed and groundspeed on gps.
