The ultimate summary is we need to understand that there are limitations on what can be done on XBox. I don’t think any Xbox user doesn’t understand what those are supposed to be. No external code can be run, so any mod that requires that can’t be run on Xbox. No manual manipulation of the file system, so this no freeware. No VR or headtracking. Etc.
But those limitations shouldn’t be, buy an addon, it might not work, and if it doesn’t, we have no idea when it will, or even if it ever will. For example, I don’t blame FSAcademy at all, but they are just taking guesses at what is wrong with XBox, I wait 3 weeks for an update, just to find that wasn’t the issue. Developers are as much in the dark as the consumers are. I don’t believe we should just have to accept that things you buy in game may never work, and know one knows anything.
I agree with a lot of what you’ve said, but IMHO, this voting on issues is a disaster. One week the VR crew have mobilised their community to vote stuff up, the next its the Xbox crew, then theres the AI Traffic crew… It becomes a populist like chasing exercise. Developers can’t work like that. They need a list, and THEY need to prioritise them and work through them in a logical order that makes sense for the areas of code that need fixed / modified.
Maybe have a table of bugs for each subset (PC, VR, XBox, General/combined) but sart afresh and each user gets 5 votes. Top 5 bugs in each category get worked on. Maybe the lists/votes get redone every 6 months or a year.
I feel like there’s a lot of reactionary bug fixes going on when SU’s come along but much less focus on really annoying bugs that crop up & we have to live with on a day to day basis. That needs to change somehow. I feel like I’ve been looking at the same Dev Update bug list since I started using FS back in July & all because these maybe now (as in today) not super priority issues had 600+ votes 6-8 months ago. It’s very frustrating.
I’ve been following this topic with interest. First off, I’ll say I’ve never owned a console (although I did buy a SEGA Megadrive so my daughter could play her beloved Sonic the Hedgehog).
It seems a bit of a bummer that things don’t work to expectations. Way back in the early days of this FS, people were saying it appears that XBOX was the goal all along because that’s where the “bucks” are. But given everything that’s been said, and the Asobo team being delighted with their implementation of converting and re-writing ancient code to make the whole kit and caboodle work on console, let me turn things on its head just to get a bit better understanding.
If I were to buy a standard XBOX that meets the stated specifications to run this FS, and then run the standard Asobo aircraft, do these problems still exist? Or does the console run properly? Certainly many YouTube videos I’ve watched using the default aircraft show the game running very well without problem.
The sticking point appears to be 3rd parties being unable to run their products because they cannot modify them enough to overcome the XBOX limitations. If companies like PMDG wrote pure XBOX code without pushing extraneous code onto a medium that is not designed to run it, or that is locked down to prevent harm, would such a PMDG aircraft run properly in those circumstances? Sure the aeroplane will be more arcade-like (or non-lifelike if you prefer), but many people would still purchase it because it seems more real, at least compared to the defaults. They’d be getting an exquisitely modelled and nicely textured model that they would get much enjoyment from.
It seems to me too, that many XBOX users that I have seen, prefer to use the 3rd person or outside view for their flying as that best showcases the scenery and the product. So is a high-fidelity aircraft that behaves closely to its real-world or PC counterpart really essential to XBOX? As I said earlier, this is not where those “bucks” come from.
As I said, just an observation from a very long time (and old) PC simmer and I’d be interested to know whether I am way off the mark here or am I right?
It is not the bugs per say. It’s the process. developers can’t test during development cycle on Xbox. The test environment not acting like a retail xbox. Everyone not sure what is happening. Or there being a plan for how to proceed.
Resources are limited. And the first thing that needs to be done, is figure out exactly what is different between the test Xboxes and the retail ones. That is actually on Microsoft to figure out. It doesn’t even involve Asobo resources. Next comes how do we allow developers to test during development cycles. If we follow my suggestion, again that is all Microsoft. So what I am talking about is distinct from the bugs. There will be changes probably that Asobo will have to make, but the bulk of everything I am talking about means Microsoft resources, nit Asobo
No, that isn’t quite it. like Voyager is just bush trips. There is no code that is pushing things to the limit. But it just doesn’t work on Xbox right now, and no one knows why. Global AI shipping, it seems on Xbox the ships traffic slider on Xbox isn’t working, and that is related to why their product doesn’t work. Again, not pushing things to the limit, but something is wrong and no one knows what. It’s a complete mystery to the developers, and so either they have to wait for Asobo, or take guesses and release those guess on the marketplace to see if they really work on a retail xbox.
I also play MSFS on the Xbox; mine is a Series S. I was excited when I heard that MSFS was being released on the Xbox. That meant I didn’t have to invest much time and money for a computer system capable of running MSFS reasonably well. As time has passed, I feel troubled by my decision to get MSFS on my Xbox. It seems to be hit and miss regarding what will work and what won’t. I bought the King Air C90 because I wanted another twin-prop plane to enjoy beyond the King Air 350i. I uninstalled it a few months back due to there being no update to the plane since it was put in the marketplace. I don’t know if the developer just gave up on the project after getting their money, or if they don’t know how to fix the problems. Since there is no communication it’s hard to know what’s going on. I would like for this sim to work on my Xbox, as it takes up very little space on my TV stand, but I am making plans to buy a PC in 2022. It seems that things work more often than not on the PC, all the new planes go to the PC first (the DC-6 being a rare exception it seems), while I fly the same stuff over and over.
The issue seems to be in the way development is done (as defined by the Microsoft Xbox team, not Asobo. The development is done using tools that the 3rd party developers run on a PC that is supposed to mimic an Xbox. The developers have no way to test their products on a real Xbox until Microsoft release them and then they can download them onto an Xbox at the same time as you or I. As you can imagine, this can cause all sorts of problem. Further, if there is an issue with the Xbox OS, this isn’t something that Asobo or the 3rd party developers can do much about, but they are then at the mercy of the Xbox product team, who take months (at best) to bring updates out for the console.
I have (like others) have been following this thread since it opened a few hours ago. I don’t own an xbox capable of running MSFS and so have no direct personal experience with these issues.
There have been some comments about the role of moderators on these forums and threads containing issues like these. As there are important issues raised here, I do want to let you know that, within a couple of hours of this thread appearing, I dropped a note to the Community Managers with a link to this thread, giving them a heads up about the feedback here.
I, personally, want to thank everyone for the quality of the comments that have been made. Keeping information factual is helpful and it helps to avoid the thread deviating in a non-useful direction, if you get my drift!
Your marketplace purchases will of course all still be valid for PC version too, so it makes the transition a lot easier. You certainly won’t regret the move.
So, i will sim on Xbox or nothing. I can sure invest in an Highend PC but i dont like to play or sim on PC.
So when in the longrun, there is not coming complex Planes like DC6, Just Flight Pipers or Mods like Seafront Simulations to Xbox, with the same possibility like on PC I will quit to use MSFS.
So i like to buy these complex Mods and invest in this kind of 3rd Party Developers… but on Xbox.
I prefer my nice cozy recliner with heat and massage 10 feet across the room from the 85 inch TV. I have 12 foot extension USB extension cables strung under the carpet for a wired controller (so the screen doesn’t time out) and my HOTAS. It was nice and comfortable when things work. Unfortunately, that isn’t often anymore. I’ve been spending the last week doing beta testing, and trying to help narrow down the XBox CTDs that happen with ORBX or DRZewiecki content (not their fault. Something else going on there that I haven’t fully narrowed down yet). All my time goes to trying to diagnose issues, level set the community, deal with developers. I don’t even really get to play anymore. I’m getting burned out, but Ive got what, $3000 in addons. I’m really starting to see that making the switch is the only way I’m going to be able to enjoy what I have invested so far…
You really can’t make those generalisation about XBox users. From what I’ve seen here, myself included (before I sold my XBox and moved to PC) there are a lot of ‘non gamers’/simmers/old timers using FS on XBox. The 3rd party planes (lack of and ongoing issues) are more the straw that broke the camel’s back for many I think. There are however plenty of XBox ‘game breaking’ experience issues eg. regular complete loss of mouse control, CTD’s and a few others that kill off the simming experience on XBox. They have been there for many months now. They are not on any separate bug list (that I have seen), and XBox currently has no separate bug list so has a perceived lack of visibility & importance. This is one of the main reasons I quit XBox tbh. I no longer had the patience to wait it out in vain hope of something changing in that regard.
Yes when you are spending more time on here, getting frustrated with too much time debugging a platform it’s probably a good time to move. I was certainly getting that way with XBox and loss of mouse control for example. After making switch to PC you do realise though that (despite the stability of PC), using this sim can still be a case of stepping from workaround to workaround at times. Hopefully that changes if bugs are focussed on, but I’m just not convinced that many of the bugs we experience on a daily basis today are actually on the radar as opposed to the ones seen and voted on 6-8 months ago. Firefighing sim updates in response to threads of outrage seems to garner more priority/attention. Is that fair? I don’t know. Something in this process needs to change though or we will end up with endless “groundhog day” cycles of this.
The key difference with PC though is, I would be looking to solve it for myself, or someone will have already come up with a solution. XBox, everyone just kind of goes “I don’t know” and feels a little helpless. There isn’t a real clear vision of the path forward. So I try and do what I can. FOr instance, look at Crashes post SU7 on Xbox - Bugs & Issues / CTDs - Microsoft Flight Simulator Forums. In order for me to get that far in diagnosing it, I’ve been having to go through the forums here, and on the Facebook groups and find reports. Doing testing. Talking with effected people and having them try things. I feel like if we don’t try to take care of ourselves, no one else is going to do it for us. Since no one has a clear idea, they just point to someone else. But all that trying to help people and diagnose things, it takes time. Seriously, I’m starting to feel like this is another full time job. But what is at risk is, not only are users migrating off XBox, but now developers are contemplating backing off XBox. We fought so hard to get them onboard, but now that no one knows how to move forward with an issue, the pendulum is swinging back. God as my witness, I found myself thinking last night as I was buying the addons I was really interested in this week “well, I will save these up for when I get the PC”. I’m buying stuff, but not even expecting to be able to enjoy it, because there is work to diagnose issues. Basically I was saying to myself “Well, I will start enjoying MSFS again in February”.
…and that is the danger, I have been guilty of being in that research issues loop myself at times. You’re right, on PC there sometimes are mods and workarounds but there are also many bugs that should be on the radar but just aren’t prioritised because many people seem to spend lots of time arguing over the shape of clouds for instance.
You are not meant to be a beta tester, so if XBox isn’t working out for you with FS then it’s time to move platform, life is too short. Maybe XBox was only ever intended to target casual gamers and/or expanding the market for gamepass subscriptions, who knows.
There is just so much more waiting for you on the PC side, I really wouldn’t hesitate any longer even if you end up running FS at a lower res.
Well, I need my taxes back first, so its not going to be until February. It stinks having the IRS take 20% of your take home pay (only way to change that is to take them to court), but it does make for a nice yearly bonus at the beginning of the year…
There are pros and cons choosing a console or a PC.
With the PC you get the mod scene and a lot more flexibility, but you might need to put more effort into troubleshooting since there are a myriad of configurations (both hardware and software), and it’s a more expensive system.
With the console you sacrifice freedom (such as the free mod scene) for a cheaper solution with less tinkering needed, as it’s a much more locked down system with more restrictions.
This isn’t unique to MSFS and it’s not fair to expect the same level of third-party software as for a PC, this is part of your choice as you pick a console or a PC.
With that said, the core functionality should of course work on a console and there are issues to be solved there, which can be frustrating.
But it’s a rather remarkable feature that a highly complex flight sim is now available on a console, supporting flight sim controllers etc. Who could ever have guessed this was even possible? Given its just half a year since the Xbox release, a little bit of patience is needed.
Honestly it really just comes back to a simple “if you say you’re going to do something, then do it” type situation. If they knew there were going to be these restraints with 3rd party add ons and things then it should have been made clear. I feel the same as everybody else in here, I also only really bought the series X for flight sim and was addicted when it first came out but quickly turned off by bugs and lack of content I need to make the switch to pc too.
Thank you both for your participation here. I just woke up to find this thread, and it has summed up so much of what I’ve been feeling in the short couple of months since I joined MSFS 2020 on Xbox.
@tgbushman where are you getting all your insider data re: the development process on Xbox in terms of the labs, etc.?
What has been really painful since I became active on this forum, is the feeling that so much of what is reported/said here seems to be said into the void.
Sure, we get responses from other users that are or are not just like us, but what I don’t feel is any connection with the developers and/or Microsoft themselves.
I had an issue with the G1000 NXi by Working Title yesterday, and if you read that 1800+ long thread, you’ll see how involved they are in communicating with us. That’s how it ought to be done.
So much of the frustration with the bugs and issues could be alleviated with some acknowledgment and commitment to communicating with us about them — even when there aren’t immediate fixes or solutions to offer.
I’ve shied away from many of the Marketplace purchases for fear of the reasons you’ve mentioned here. I’ve had a couple of issues with the two Carenado aircraft I’ve bought — issues the exist on Xbox and not on PC — and that has caused me to put the brakes on further purchases of any kind. Furthermore, I’m worried about conflicts between packages and that just adding to my woes. It’s sounding like holding back has been wise based on your account of issues.
None of this bodes well, but the silence is deafening and is, by far, my biggest grievance. Well that and the bug popularly contest approach to issue prioritization and, frankly, recognition.