Everything, even a gamepad is a 100% improvement over keyboard control!
Thank you all for comments. Please help me put the various options into perspective.
Iām interested in the following categories:
- Functionality (ability to control throttle, rudder, flaps, etc.)
- Control precision/feel
- Longevity
On a relative scale of 1-10 with the following definitions/assumptions:
- Keyboard is a ā1ā for functionality and control precision/feel
- Keyboard is a ā10ā for longevity, since they rarely brake.
How would each of the following rate in the above 3 categories:
- Gladiator NXT
- Thrustmaster T16000M
- Logitech Extreme Pro 3D
Thanks!
Gladiator 10, 10, (10 estimated) still too new.
T16000M 8, 8, 9. I had 2, each for at least 4-5 years.
Logitech, 8, 6, (6 estimated)
Thanks. At $120 or $150 the GNXT was a slam dunk. At $200 Iām not sure. Did your Thrustmaster T16000M last 4-5 years out the box, or did you have to take it apart and do anything to keep it maintained?
I never took it apart. I replaced it when the required deadzone became greater than 5%.
I fully understand your problem. I know that I wouldnāt pay 200USD for my first joystick!
Thanks. What does that mean - deadzone more than 5%? Please excuse my lack of knowledge - Iām new to this.
Most joysticks, even some expensive ones are using potentiometers.
They tend to become imprecise rather quickly which means you need to increase the deadzone where joystick movement doesnāt cause any stick movement in the cockpit.
5% is already pretty big IMO, but some people are using even 15 or 20% which doesnāt make much sense.
A dirty potentiometer can cause jitter and unwanted control movements.
edit: Neither the Gladiator nor the T16000M are using potentiometers.
I had a T16000M and it lasted less than a year. The Logitech about 3 years. I know nothing about the Gladiator but you should also consider price vs function . The Logitech and the T16000M will both do the job. Really, you wonāt be able to feel much precision until you have more experience with a joystick. In my case, there was little difference. The throttle on the Logitech is so so and I donāt use it but use an X52 throttle. It will do the job, however, and speed you up and slow you down. Lots of buttons on both. $40 vs $170 is your choice. As a starter the $40 is hard to beat and someday in the near future, there will be competition once again in the controller marketplac e.
What happened to your T16000M?
Did you use it for other things than flight simming?
Thanks. That echos concerns Iām reading on reddit. Have modern T16000Ms gone downhill vs. older ones (more than 5 years ago).
Lasting less than a year is not acceptable. However, Amazon offers a 3 year warranty including accidents for $8 on the T16000M. Maybe in this case, itās worth getting the 3 year warranty and accident protection for only $8.
OK. Iāve been reading a number of these threads, and what Iām gathering is the Logitech is actually good for what it is, an entry level stick and much improved over keyboard. The Thrustmaster is a little better than the Logitech, but has some longevity issues - cleaning the pots may or may not help.
Iām thinking I may go with the Logitech first and get the experience. Iāll also be totally comfortable with my heavy handed young son using a $35 Logitech - who doesnāt have the precision motor skills yet for keyboard flying. Intention is Iāll probably move up to the GNXT in the future. VKB is also releasing a companion throttle. The VKB series (GNXT and companion throttle) is probably the highest Iāll go in the sim, but $35 to get the initial experience is fine, especially if itāll be a marked improvement over keyboard controls.
Iām assuming the small throttle lever on the Logitech is no worse than using function keys on the keyboard?
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The T16000M doesnāt use pots on the aileron and elevator axis. Only on the rudder axis.
Any Hardware throttle control is way better than keyboard control.
I bought the T16000M to replace the Logitech. It may have just been a bad one, also, those raised spots on the side buttons were just uncomfortable to me. We all have our favorite gear and some of the more advanced stuff is overkill to me. I have been using flight simulator for a few decades now, belong to three virtual airlines and sometimes, have a great landing 
By the way, I still have the old Logitech and when I checked it, seemed okay. Just a touch noisy.
To OP - Suggestions are like, well that thing we all have on our backside, everyone has one, but none are perfect for each of us. Some things to consider:
- Type of desk/platform you are using for your flight gear. I have a modified āLā shaped desk, with a fairly large center section which had keyboard tray (removed) (had huge monitor hutch-removed-as technology went from CRTās to Plasma and now LED/QLED displays-hutch in the way) so I can use my JS and Honeycomb Bravo TQ on it. It DOES NOT work as well as possibly this link for platform would for me. However, I also do work on this desk, itās got lots of file storage, and other drawers for tools, and stuff I keep handy for working on things. I am going to leave with house when we sell, because itās too big to move or store.
Decide first, on what type of platform you are going to āplay onā and then the rest of it can come together. AmazonSmile: Arozzi Arena Gaming Desk - Red : Home & Kitchen
And maybe one of these too: AmazonSmile: USB C HUB, Upgraded TOTU 13 in 1 Type C Hub Dongle Adapter (4K Dual HDMI&DP,75W PD), Triple Display Docking Station for Windows&MacBook Pro USB C Systems, macOS only Support Mirror Display : Electronics
All those devices need a very good powered USB Hub to connect everything to the PC. Only recommend this one because itās good quality and good customer support-made in china.
- I had a Logitech 3D Pro Joystick, it was about year or so old, it was getting sloppy at rest position, so like you I went looking for what is best. I almost bough the HC-Alpha Yoke, but itās made in china and I aint buying no more ā ā ā ā from china. So I settled on Virpil FSX Grip and the C-50 base for my JS. Someday, because I fly mostly large commercial and military planes (yokes) I will get a yoke, there are 2-3 I would consider, Yoko āthe Yokeā european, expensive like 1K dollars, the "Fulcrum Yoke-larger footprint than Yoko - Fulcrum One Yoke ā Fulcrum Sim
- Throttle controls - I have and use the Honeycomb Bravo Throttle Quadrant, - again, made in China (Hong Kong actually), so wonāt get another one. Virpil makes excellent throttle and switch panels, but they tend to be more along the lines of fighter jets, which I dont normally fly except the DC Designs F-14 which works fine with the HC-BTQ. The VFX stick is in fact the exact replica of the one used in the F-14, but did not buy for that reason. I do not like Logittech because they are cheaply made, and donāt seem to last long time. Lots of people like thrustmaster, never used. Note in unboxing and reviews, good reviews will point out the good and bad, you need to decide what is important to you, read first sentance above which should explain that.
Opinion - You need to make sure this platform is going to be something you are going to stay with for a long time (been simming in FS since the 1998 release-and still use FSX). Then my suggestion is you buy the best quality flight devices you can afford, even missing a meal to get good quality stuff. I recommend Virpil, they make everything you could want, and all out of mostly heavy duty metal or quality plastic stuff. Investigate YouTube videos on the products you are investigating, and get more than one opinion on them. Now one other point, some devices are expenisve, start out nice but degrade over time, (thrustmast JSās have or had a weak joint at base connection) the Virpil stuff, has extra springs and various adjustments which can be made to keep the tensions like you like. Many videos on this subject, Jessie Calder; Havoc Company Clan for two, they explain virpil and adjustments. There is a post hearin someplace on this part of forum talking about the fulcrm yoke, but search on it if necessary. So even before you look for devices, is this something you are going to stay with?, and will device you choose work in other games or sims so you can get double or triple duty out of it. You got to think this through. Take your time, donāt jump on first recommendation on device you āthinkā you are going to like, take time, you will be stuck with your decision for long time, and lead times for every single flight device (in fact most PC related/Appliance-devices) are back ordered for months, and the supply chain worldwide is broken and may never recover because governments keep changing the bar on lockdowns/vaccines, et-al. You got nothing but time to make sure you get the right things, but Playing platform would be first consideration, because this āstuffā has to go someplace and work for you there. I left out rudder pedels, because they are a āseldom used deviceā and not really necessary for full gain of depth in any flight sim. Real pilots use them, when hit lottery, as good ones, (Not logitech) real good ones are close to 500 USD now. Sorry to be long winded.
Thanks for the suggestions. I enjoy the sim and plan to continue playing it, but realistically Iām not playing many hours every day, maybe several hours per week of active use, with the occasional cross country or transcontinental jet or airliner flight in the background using autopilot for the cruise.
Realistically the VKB Gladiator NXT is more than Iāll ever need. I donāt need or want anything more expensive than that at this time. Iāll probably eventually get that. Iām just wondering if the ~$200 (including shipping) is best for my very first flight stick, or if Iām better served starting with a less expensive stick I can get in 2 days (Logitech Extreme 3D Pro or Thrustmaster 16000M). I donāt mind starting with an entry level stick and then getting the VKB shortly after. Iād be comfortable with my young son using either the Logitech or TM, but not the VKB, at least not for a few years.
Iāve never flown stick before and looking to upgrade from using a keyboard NUMPAD. Anything pricier, I need to save the funds for a new gaming PC Iāll plan to get sometime in 2022.
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Right now itās down to Logitech 3D Pro Extreme or Thrustmaster 16000M, unless there is something better in that $100 or less price range (including shipping)
Reviews say the TM has more precise controls, but is the Logitech really that bad if all youāve flown the sim is just a keyboard NUMPAD? Also heard that particular TM rudder/twist axis tends to fail, although Iām not sure what conditions/use tend that to fail. At the moment I can get the Logitech for $35 and the TM for $75. Iām willing to spend up to $100 for my first if itād make a big difference, but that also includes shipping and total cost.
I like that MSFS2020 officially supports all of these products. I realize it doesnāt officially support the VKB Gladiator, but Iām assuming that could be mapped. The full VKB set, when it is released, will probably be in the same price range as the Thrustmaster Warthog, so would very much consider the Warthog in the future.
Right now, I want something to improve my flying experience that will likely last 2 good years of regular MSFS2020 use.
I plan to get a new gaming PC sometime in 2022, so possibly 2023 for a Warthog or VKB set.
Logitech has 3 year warranty where TM only has 1 year?
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I recommend the Logitech as cost is minimal and experience will be similar for you.
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Does anyone know or is there anyway to find the default control mappings MSFS uses for either the Logitech or the TM?
I would suggest that you go with the cheapest option.
If you find out that you are playing MSFS much more often when using realistic controls, switching to the Gladiator in a few month or even a year will be a no brainer for you.
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Just pulled the trigger for the Logitech. It was on sale for $30, so thatās just a drop in the bucket to test the waters.
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