Ls8-18 still "glued" to the ground during take off

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1

:wave: Thank you using the Bug section, using templates provided will greatly help the team reproducing the issue and ease the process of fixing it.

Are you using Developer Mode or made changes in it?

No

Which aircraft are you using that experiences this issue?

Official Ls8-18 glider

Brief description of the issue:

SU12Beta 1.31.19.0 Ls8-18 during both winch and tow-plane take off behaves as if it is “glued” to the ground until tow plane starts and speed rises around 120km/h - even without any ballast.
Please note that other gliders - including official Dg-1001 and especially 3rd party gliders like freeware Discus, Ka7, Ls4 etc do not show such strange behaviour, they react naturally and as expected, so it is not a limitation of MSFS, but rather Ls8-18 model implementation.

Provide Screenshot(s)/video(s) of the issue encountered:

https://youtu.be/t7SXaIRvOTg
Please note Input Viewer window was used to visualize stick position.
Test performed with 0 ballast (with ballast it seems even worse), clear sky weather preset.

Compare this with real life Ls8-18 tow takeoff footage: https://youtu.be/VtRNGwfnhWg?t=4

Observe how initially pilot pushes the stick for glider to assume horizontal, tail off ground position - to reduce shape drag and lift tail wheel off the ground to reduce drag even more and help tow plane (this is generic tow start method) - nose starts to move down at about 50km/h with not so strong stick push - this is unacheivable in MSFS until way higher speed with fully pushed stick (and 0 ballast according to MSFS seems to be fwd limit position so it should be easier) first reaction is at about 80km/h for unballasted glider - and requires stronger stick push and often later when starting pull to “unglue the glider” results is vertical nose oscillation and banging tail against ground.
In above RL video at 0:20 glider gently lifts from the ground at about 80km/h, even without any significant pull on the stick - this is typical situation - while in MSFS we can see that gliders becomes unglued from the ground at way higher speed - around 120km/h and mostly because tow plane rises thus helping to rise nose which seems to greatly help to unglue the glider (while in RL glider often rises well before heavy tow plane even with near to stick neutral position).

Detailed steps to reproduce the issue encountered:

Subissue #1 With default ballast settings or zero ballast settings try push stick during tow take off and observe that nose down reaction is at too high speed - about 80 instead about 50.
Subissue #2 Observe that glider doesn’t want to lift off from the ground in a little pulled back stick position until reaching around 120km/h and mostly because tow plane raises - expected situation lift off with only gentle pull at speed around 80km/h
Subissue #3 Easly induced nose up/down oscillations when trying to pull stick at expected take off speed - when suddenly glider becomes “unglued” from the ground.

PC specs and peripheral set up:

doesn’t matter

Are you using DX11 or DX12?

DX11

Are you using DLSS?

doesn’t matter

:loudspeaker: For anyone who wants to contribute to this issue, Click on the button below to use this template:

Do you have the same issue if you follow the OP’s steps to reproduce it?

Provide extra information to complete the original description of the issue:

Are you using DX11 or DX12?

Are you using DLSS?

If relevant, provide additional screenshots/video:

4

This item has been reproduced and turned into an official bug report internally. This topic is now updated with the #bug-logged tag. From here, Asobo prioritizes the bug, works on a fix, and slates it for a future update.

2 Likes
5

:wave: Thank you using the Bug section, using templates provided will greatly help the team reproducing the issue and ease the process of fixing it.

Are you using Developer Mode or made changes in it?

No

Have you disabled/removed all your mods and addons?

Yes

Brief description of the issue:

Gliders fail to generate lift on launch with winch, and I have seen others also having issues with tow plane

Provide Screenshot(s)/video(s) of the issue encountered:

Detailed steps to reproduce the issue encountered:

Load into airport, select winch launch, wag rudder, winch will pull hard, then back off and tug you along. You won’t get off the ground. I have also seen users having issue with Tow Plane never taking off. It appears that some airports work correctly, and some airports do not work correctly. If you don’t have this issue, try muktiple different airports until you can replicate this issue.

PC specs and/or peripheral set up if relevant:

Build Version # when you first started experiencing this issue:

SU 11

:loudspeaker: For anyone who wants to contribute on this issue, Click on the button below to use this template:

Do you have the same issue if you follow the OP’s steps to reproduce it?

Provide extra information to complete the original description of the issue:

If relevant, provide additional screenshots/video:

6

I have the same issue with tow plane.

2 Likes
7

Do you have the same issue if you follow the OP’s steps to reproduce it?

Yes

Provide extra information to complete the original description of the issue:

Load up glider set to winch launch at FAOI. Unable to gain any lift

If relevant, provide additional screenshots/video:

8

Do you have the same issue if you follow the OP’s steps to reproduce it?

Yes

Provide extra information to complete the original description of the issue:

Tow Plane seams to weak at EDUE.

If relevant, provide additional screenshots/video:

9

Hello all,

no problem with tow C172 at FAOI and also at EDUE. Pls take to account that some runways are no long enough for proper t/o and especially at EDUE is expected to use runway pointing over city due terrain. FAOI same, I selected runway 29??? at can lift off without problems after tow C172. Winch catapult also without problems at FAOI. I forgot one, at EDUE tow aircraft can start braking during t/o because some problems with terrain or other things like speed maybe.

10

Are you having the same problem in other locations? If you try Upington does it work there? Or try Bitterwasser in Namibia. They have a huge dry pan.

What airspeed are you flying after take-off? Are you having the same issues if you fly the Winch Tow flying lesson in the Training section?

11

FAOI is a glider club with a winch (36 right), so the runways are long enough.

I tried a winch launch on 36 with headwind. I was able to take off using tow, so thats not a problem, but it uses the entire runway. (which is not how it is in RL)

For winch, its as if the glider is stuck to the ground and the detaches itself from the ground at exactly 105, but the winch reaches only 100 kph and stays there. Works fine on asphalt (FAGC), but not on a grassy field.

Spoilers are in, brakes are off. :man_shrugging:

2 Likes
12

Hi all,

I experienced this bug once myself. The rudder wag signal worked, the wing runner waved his arm, the tow plane started accelerating down the runway, and the glider started rolling
but then I couldn’t get airborne after gaining sufficient airspeed and gently easing back on the stick.

As best as I can tell, it seems this bug only occurs at some airports but not others. To help us log this issue properly, can you kindly post the ICAO code in this thread of any airport where you experience this bug?

Thanks,
MSFS Team

4 Likes
13

It feels like the gliders are glued to the ground. In most cases you have to rip them off the runway by pulling the stick all way back and then quickly push the stick to not tip the towplane over.

1 Like
14

Happens to me at EGNP*. Winch works fine but tow remains firmly stuck to the ground on all runways.

*That’s Midlands Gliding Club in Shropshire, not Leeds heliport in case anyone googles it.

15

It is about different issue - that no rope and winch holder appears so start cannot be initiated.
This issue is about towed glider is unable to lift above ground even when enough speed is acheived and yoke is pulled - as a RL glider pilot I would be able to rise soon after stall speed is acheived, long before tow plane. - and in msfs no matter what you do you have no elevator authority way above Vopt (even more than 100km/h) - esp in ls8 you are artificially stuck like this for way too long. Normally RL pilots would at first push yoke forward at pretty slow speed and be able to rise tail reducing tail wheel drag helping to gain speed faster, and later pull slightly and rise easly without bouncing tail to the ground - this is not possible now in msfs.

3 Likes
16

Oh yes, you’re right - sorry, I misread! Post deleted.

1 Like
17

Glider unable to leave ground using a winch at Nephi U14

Insert sad Bruno Vassel face

1 Like
18

I’ve just had this happen at FASH (Stellenbosch, South Africa), RWY 01. Winch launch, multiple restarts, glider was stuck to the ground like a remora fish. The single seat glider. Checked trim, tried with full nose up trim, controls and surfaces all moved
I got it airbourne once by slamming full forward stick, then pulling full back. I was unable to repeat that though. 4/5 tries resulted in being stuck to the runway.

The weird thing is, I’d flown from there a few days ago, with no issues (but in the tandem seat glider).

19

It has also happened to me in various airports, while it works neatly in others. Seems a bug linked to airports.

20

Ok, I’ve managed to isolate/replicate it (for me at least), but maybe somebody else can try this?

It only occurred with the single seat glider for me, the LS8-18: Conditions to duplicate it were with a winch launch, although it is still very sticky with an aerotow, and needs the tow plane to lift off an pull it up, but the critical ingredient was a TAILWIND. I was using FASH (Stellenbosch, South Africa) off RWY01, with a wind (set by Live Weather) of 177/8.

You can see very quickly when the ‘failure’ is going to happen - the airspeed only reaches about 100 km/h or so, and then just stops increasing, the vario stops chirping and just gives a flat tone as well - you cannot pull it off the ground no matter what then.

The tandem glider worked in all cases.

So, summary for my situation:

  • Single seat glider (LS8-18)
  • Winch launch
  • Tailwind

Maybe somebody can try and see if that duplicates it for them?

1 Like
22

Confirming a winch launch; even if windspeed is showing 0kts.
Finally got MSFS to load up and figured out all the basics after the quick tutorial. (Coming from Condor2, was just unfamiliar with what’s required in MSFS to get going)

Loaded up in Mammoth Lake [KMMH] in the LG8.
Wasn’t expecting a long flight, just a few patterns; as wind speed was 0kts and decently cold.

Glued to the ground.
Restart
 same story.
Quick search, brought me here, saw your comment.

Attempted launching from opposite end of the runway; zero issues.
Popped up in the air, got a solid little flight around the area in.

I did not try in the DG, so cannot confirm if it resolved the issue or not; but flipping take off direction, despite wind being 0kts according to the map before load in, resolved the issue.

23

Oof, bad testing conclusion on my side - but I tried again, using custom weather, and deleting the wind layer (wind sock also showed no wind), and was able to successfully launch in either direction from FASH with no problems.

Then I tried to duplicate the problem, and was unable to, launched easily in both directions - but adding a custom wind layer seemed to not actually take effect (wind sock still hanging, showing no wind).

I had limited time to test though, Darktide finished downloading so I had to bring order to Chaos.