Major pincushion distortion on screen as default? - VFR (anything with looking out of the cockpit) flying is unrealistic in MSFS by concept?

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Hi, I have one WQHD 3440x1440 21:9 screen.
The cockpit camera on such a screen is best used in wide-angle view, best for both outside and instruments reference for VFR flying IMO. It’s the default view after installation as well.
Now the way Asobo has implemented the wide angle views, they have a lot of angular distortion to the sides. (pincushion distortion)

An object that appears in the middle of the screen at 100% perceived width is stretched on the screen edges to about 150% of its actual width. Very irritating effect, and it makes visual flying - in particular during approach, judging runway distance, height and bearing when turning final - unnecessarily hard and unrealistic. Wouldn’t it be common sense, that all objects should appear at the same perceived distance, no matter where on the screen they are, central or toward the sides?

Is there any reason why it has to be that way? Pincushion distortion happens in optical lenses due to physical limitations, but not in natural eyesight. So there is no reason to simulate optical camera shortcomings in MSFS, unless it wants to be a bad optical lenses simulator? :wink:
Also most ultra wide screens these days are curved (mine at a 1.5m radius), so there is no need to compensate for an ultra wide flat screen. or that should be optional - and ideally scalable - only.

I tried the camera lens correction ON in graphics settings, but that even increases the side distortion slightly.
How are you guys dealing with that effect? Have I overlooked a setting where I can switch it to undistorted view? Is it a known problem? I searched a bit, but couldn’t find much, only when talking about multiscreen setups where the problem also exists.

Look at the difference in perceived size and proximity of the runway in both screenshots below. You think you are much closer when seeing the runway on the side of the screen, compared to seeing it central. It screws with your brain and makes you fly wrong approaches, compared to reality, where the runway will always appear at same perceived distance, no matter if you look at it to the side or straight ahead. :sunglasses: Judging distance and height is difficult enough without instruments, so reliable visual representation of the outside world is key to using MSFS as a training tool. Apparently X-Plane does not have that angular distortion to the sides.

From what I have seen from a lot of user videos, my setup is rather average.
Distance to my 34" screen is about 1 m from my eyes, screen width about 80 cm, and the difference in eye distance between center and sides is only about 3-5 cm (screen curvature is 1.5m in radius). So only a very very slight pincushion would be needed to offset that difference of 3-5 cm difference over 1m distance, if any, it’s almost negligible. The current implementation accounts for a very extreme offset center vs side to the eye, like someone sitting 50cm away from a 1m wide - and flat - screen, which would be very unrealistic (and unhealthy).

Pics taken at exact same position respectively, only aircraft aligned differently horizontally.

Baseleg central view 45deg
Baseleg central view 45deg1920×804 180 KB

Baseleg peripheral view 45deg
Baseleg peripheral view 45deg1920×804 187 KB

turning final runway center screen
turning final runway center screen1920×804 112 KB

turning final runway side of screen
turning final runway side of screen1920×804 114 KB

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Yes that’s how all 3d rendering works with a rectangular perspective projection; a wider FOV produces more distortion the farther from the center you go, if your eye isn’t at the right position to match the virtual FOV with your real one.

Sit closer, and you’ll see less distortion.

There are several threads about “distortion” at wide FOVs, you might want to look them up and see some of the discussion there. It’s possible for software to convert the 3d rendering to a different projection (say, more cylindrical) after the fact, but MSFS like most games doesn’t implement it.

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Sure, but it’s scalable, and it looks absolutely wrong in MSFS wide-angle cockpit view.
What is the “right” position of the eye in relation to a 34" ultra wide screen?
Certainly not 36 cm, about half as far away from the screen as it is wide. But that is what the software designers here apparently have implemented. I see a lot of users complaining about it now in connection also to the new multiple screen options. And comparisons to X-Plane where it is not looking distorted.

You can’t fly a good visual approach like this.

Ideally Asobo would make the pincushion effect scalable and not only suitable for extremely shortsighted people who sit 36 cm away from the screen only.

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For a 95-degree FOV, my calculations are 14.4 inches (about 36.5cm) viewing distance.

And comparisons to X-Plane where it is not looking distorted.

I doubt this immensely. :slight_smile: Screenshot and exact FOV used?

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What are you trying to say now? What longer distance? Nobody is sitting 36.5 cm away from a 80 cm screen. The game absolutely needs to scale the pincushion effect to a much different projection. I’m rather sure about that.

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Yep, and I’m telling you that that longer distance will produce distortion at the edges on any 3d-rendered scene with a large FOV unless the game converts it to a different projection.

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Some racing sims have a view distance calculator built in for this very thing. iRacing for one does

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What are you trying to say now? What longer distance? Nobody is sitting 36.5 cm away from a 80 cm wide screen. The game absolutely needs to scale the pincushion effect to a much different, less distorted, projection. I’m rather sure about that.

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that’s sensible. the current projection is really not realistic for most users I believe. Making the pincushion effect/distortion scalable so it suits the mainstream as well as most of the users under the usual bell curve as far as eye distance to screen width ratio is concerned, would be important.

It’s particularly important for a flightsim to have the perceived distances right for flying visual.

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Try to set the correct zoom factor. Then you can sit far away from the screen. I have a 32’’ with 2560*1440. My correct zoom factors are 57 to 60 in the cockpit and 67 with the drone camera!

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I have a zoom factor of 50. The wide angle camera gives the correct cockpit view and its the default.
What is wrong is the pincushion distortion. Has nothing to do with the zoom. Zoom would be a work around, to get less of the distortion, as it is less visible when zoomed in, but then you don’t get the instruments in view…

I repeat myself, the runway should look the same, no matter if it’s displayed screen center or screen edge. Otherwise you can’t train the brain for a realistic visual approach.

Maybe it would be interesting to have a query about user eye distance to screen, and screen width.

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…then you have to play it with multi-monitoring. Look here. You will get a good explanation: MSFS Surround Vs. New Multiview: The Best Sim Solution - YouTube

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Set X-Plane 12 to the same FOV and resolution in the same plane in the same place, and show me screenshots of how they’re different.

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Thanks, but why should I do that? As I understand it, that wouldn’t change a thing about the extreme pincushion distortion for the scenery in MSFS in the default cockpit view.
All I want is the runway to look the same on the screen edge as it does on the screen center. Without extreme pincushion distortion. And Without having to sit 36cm close to an 80cm wide flat screen (LOL actually), the setting Asobo apparently thinks is correct for all of us.

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Just to be clear, this really isn’t an MSFS-specific thing – it’s inherent to how all 3d rendering works, in every game, unless a specific game takes measures to reproject to a different view.

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Hmmm, that’s a straw man argument. Sorry for bringing up X-Plane, doesn’t matter. What matters is, after we all invested into MSFS, that the runway looks the same on screen center as it does on screen edge.
Currently MSFS is far away from such realism. Currently I have to sit 36 cm close to a 80cm wide monitor, in order to see the proportions about correctly. My eyes hurt even thinking about it… No idea why Asobo thinks that makes any sense.
Mainstream of users certainly sit further away. Particularly those with hardware flight gear.
And ideally one could scale the pincushion disortion to an individual setting.

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[edited for tone] The reason I bring up X-Plane is that Asobo does the same thing as everyone else.

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"Just to be clear, this really isn’t an MSFS-specific thing – it’s inherent to how all 3d rendering works, in every game, unless a specific game takes measures to reproject to a different view."
That’s besides the point. Of course anybody projecting a 3D image onto a 2D screen has to decide on the angular distortions. (Which requires an assumption to be made about the mean average how far users sit away from what kind of screens (flat or curved) in which physical sizes.)
But Asobo is using a very extreme and unrealistic distortion which results in heavy pincushion distortion for the majority of users. And renders the sim potentially quite useless - or even harmful - for training real world visual flight, I would say.

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Do you want to see the instrument panel? Or do you want no distortion?

Or, are you asking for addition of an alternate projection to get both?

If so, post a wishlist item and be done with it.

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The reason I bring up X-Plane is that Asobo does the same thing as everyone else .

I don’t think they do actually. The pincushion distortion is on the extreme side on a wide monitor. You have to sit less than 1/2 of the distance away from the screen, than your screen is wide. (36cm viewing distance for an 80cm wide screen) Who does that even???
Maybe not so relevant for a game, but very relevant for a sim.

I want to see the instrument panel and the outside world. Like in the default cockpit wide-angle view. And when the runway moves over the screen while the distance to it remains constant, I want its size and shape, aka as perceived distance and height, to remain constant, no matter where on the screen it is displayed. Like how it looks in the real world. Without having to move in to 36 cm to my 80cm wide screen, which is torture to most people’s eyes.

Do you want to see the instrument panel? Or do you want no distortion?

That’s a false antagonism. Both are possible together.
Ideally they give us a setting that makes it scalable, so from the short sighted screen huggers to the more distant virtual pilots all can be happy.

The problem will bite Asobo more and more, now with multiple screen setups, as well as ever widening, often curved, single screens becoming the norm.