Maybe also because the autoland has limitations, this wing low technique is not meant to be used with 30/40 kts of crosswind.
Edit: it seems the Airbus is using de-crabbing before touchdown (with wings level) technique, I don’t know if that is accurate to real life, you can do that at any crosswind, autoland itself still has limitations of course.
AP was engaged and so was the FMAs. Like I said he didn’t show those things cause it was a quick and dirty developer demo video. Check the comment section.
Get the experimental FBW A320 and everything will display properly like in the second video.
Great Video, I am very happy, Now I need to see a human perform that landing with 30+ knots gusting winds, not 20, not 25 not 29, 30+ knots gusting wind on touch down… Please keep a note that in order to have the gusting wind at 30+ knots on touchdown, the wind speed should be set to 60+ knots, because the simulator reduces the speed by half the closer you get to the ground. In addition, the required 30+ knots crosswind component is due to the fact that even on this video you showed me, the touch down is not smooth like in my x-Plane video, the reason it is not smooth, because if you gradually apply force on the rudder, the wing on the wind side falls down, even when the ailerons are applied to compensate on the rudder moving. This is very important to de-crabbing an aircraft from the strong crosswind, in addition, you can’t see this effect in lighter crosswinds unless you really pay attention, but in the video, you can see that too, when the aircraft touches on the ground it really moves aggressively, not softly and smoothly.
The reason this works in X-plane is that the creator is “spoofing” x-plane to make it work. The VISUAL 3d model is NOT the same as the 3d model that is used to determine flight characteristics. To prove this, just use Plane Maker to open this aircraft and take a look at what is specified as wing surfaces and other flight surfaces. You’ll see entries for wings and ailerons and other controls that are not visible.
You can use the aerodynamic model of a glider and link it to the visual model of a brick in X-plane and make the false claim that X-plane ignores the 3d model and you’d be wrong.
Nice try at throwing shade but fail.
Emphasis mine. I’ll bite, been lurking around trying to understand what you’re getting at…
Is the wing drop on de-crab the main thing you are trying to argue here? Because if it is, it is in fact present in XP11 as well, from your own videos in the original post, and also with my own experience in XP11. See where you have to counter left rudder with right aileron + roll spoilers?
In fact, I’d argue that this is correct based on physics as you want to argue your point. When you de-crab, 1 wing swings forward while the other swings backward relative to the aircraft. You thus have 1 wing seeing faster local airflow than the other, thus producing more lift than the other. This lift imbalance, if uncorrected for, should cause a wing drop, which should be more pronounced on longer, swept wings.
I’ll give benefit of doubt, that the feel of FS2020 is not exactly the same as XP11, maybe that’s why you feel so strongly about this. However, the fundamentals are correct, and FS2020 is no worse than XP11 here.
Edit: well looks like i was 1 min slow with my reply, but your post above seems to confirm what I thought you were thinking…
No. Parameters like *pos_apex_lon and *pos_apex_vert give the “virtual windtunnel” hints where to find wing, vtail, htail at the 3D model. That is they say “search around here”. And again, you can believe me or not. But you can go is MSFS 2020 to DevMode, go to Aircraft Editor, Debug, Sim Forces and see the surfaces vectors. If your parameters are wrong, the surfaces vectors are at wrong places.
False… again… the upwind wing does not drop due to the yaw, quite the opposite, it rises and in order to keep wings level you need opposite aileron input. It has also nothing to do with the smoothness of the touchdown. Neither is a smooth touchdown required for a proper crosswind landing.
It seems like the Airbus de-crabs right before touchdown while keeping wings level, so neither should you nor the autoland keep the aircraft off the runway in order to try and make a smooth touchdown. You’ll need to set it down quite quickly after de-crabbing as the aircraft will start to drift.
So if I were hand flying that, and de-crabbing just before touchdown, I should be ready to put some aileron input in along with rudder to stop the upwind wing from rising?
Exactly. It becomes second nature, especially in swept wing aircraft, to apply opposite aileron when pushing off the crab angle.
You don’t want to touch down on the downwind wheels!!!
(That’s what happened in AdherentToasts first video)
Great. Be happy but calm down too 
I’ll do try that and make a video of it when I go home from work, if someone else doesn’t upload by that time already.
I don’t care what your X-plane video or X-plane sim shows. I’m only interested in finding out how closely the FBW A320NX in MSFS 2020 represents or simulates the in-flight aerodynamic characteristics of a real world A320Neo. I’m only interested in finding out how real world A320Neo pilots judge the flight model of the FBW A320NX. The model could be similar to XP, or may be not. Doesn’t mean anything to anyone.
This is not a X-plane or P3D or Nintendo Mario discussion forum. And that’s the way I see it. The forum code of conduct clearly states:
“Our goal is to keep these forums a positive environment for you to discuss Microsoft Flight Simulator related topics”,
“This forum is not to be used for any non-MSFS related businesses, organizations, or websites.”
https://forums.flightsimulator.com/faq
I don’t see any mention of Playstation 2, XP, P3D in the CoC.
Like I said before (and you conveniently ignored it), FlyByWire Simulations is working with 92 IRL A320 pilots and more than 60 aircraft maintenance engineers to develop the FBW A320NX for MSFS 2020. You can chat with them here FlyByWire Simulations on their discord server and ask them how realistic or unrealistic this aircraft’s flight model is when compared to a real world A320Neo.
Well done
I don’t need to, i’m well aware of how Plane Maker works
Indeed they would
I believe the term throwing shade is something that is aimed at a person, however neither that image or post makes reference to anyone. That image was posted to be taken in a light hearted way, with a clear understanding on my part of how the X-Plane modelling system works. Your assumption is therefore completely wrong. Fail indeed
Have a good one.
I had bailed on this thread when I realized that @AdherentToast91 was fishing for YouTube hits. I was shocked to learn that the “Please don’t feed the trolls” sign had been trampled into the peanut shells. I took a chance and read through from my last participation and would like to extend a round to @PZL104 and @anon50268670 for the amazing patience in trying to educate under duress.
Let me begin by saying it was been a few years since I drove a 732 but I am pretty sure that the greying matter remembers the odd trip into the frozen Canadian north that required some rather adventurist techniques to get a 200 into 5000ft snow covered gravel strips during those bracing winter storms.
One of the things we liked about the 737-200 was the robust landing gear. Boeing saw fit to create an aircraft that was just fine hitting the ground at up to 10* crab, if I remember the book. The issue, as with all low wing aircraft is that under extreme condition it is impossible to land using the wing low technique in extreme winds without ditching the side of the runway. In those extra blustery days a proper use of combined techniques was absolutely required. The approach was always achieved with crab only. At flare a decrab to the maximum safe angle was kicked in with the bare minimum wing drop to hold the runway heading. As left seat, I would have cuffed any pilot that attempted to “soft land” in those conditions. Not only are we dealing with extremely short runways and need to get down and stopped but there is nothing more dangerous than floating over a 100ft wide tree lined runway in gusty winds. The sooner we can stop flying the happier I am.
The whole discussion on “unprofessional” crosswind landing technique is ludicrous. A professional pilot uses all their experience and training to safely put the aircraft on the ground using whatever technique is most appropriate for the conditions. The publications offered by Toasty indicate the use of combined crab and sideslip as required at touchdown to not exceed the "geometry’ of the aircraft. That means that you cannot drop a wing beyond the point at which paint transfer will occur with the asphalt. The ONLY way to safely put the bird on the ground is to either combine the technique with a partial de-crab to the allowed limits, or absolutely perfect timing. To de-crab to 0* at the exact moment of touchdown is nearly unachievable and so it is inevitable that there will be side load on the gear from either drifting off centre line or from some remaining crab. By allowing some wing low to reduce the possible drift while reducing the crab angle minimizes those loads, as long as the aircraft is positively planted to allow the tires to get the grip required to assist in ground control and achieve the necessary braking to get the aircraft into taxi mode sooner rather than later.
Other that a handful of pivot pinned bungee taildragger landing gear that WILL hurt you if side load is introduced at touchdown, I am not aware of any modern aircraft that are adverse to some sideload. The safe operation in strong xwind conditions in ALL low wing aircraft will require the need to sustain some sideways forces that can only be minimized, not eliminated, by good, PROFESSIONAL, pilot technique.
I did not buy MSFS to have X-Plane with improved graphics. I do not like the physics presented by X-Plane. I purchased MSFS because I was hoping for the next generation of physics that will eventually bring us closer to the “Real as it Gets” ideal. I am not convinced that MSFS has achieved the wind modelling that the sim is capable of. Maybe it is the dialing down of some of the wind/air effects so as not to “confuse” new users that makes flight in close proximity to the ground seem unpredictable. Maybe it is the less than perfect aircraft modelling. All I know is that the to compare where we are now with another sim is a mistake. We need to compare to reality and work toward that. I REALLY don’t want just another X-Plane.
I believe the term throwing shade is something that is aimed at a person, however neither that image or post makes reference to anyone. That image was posted to be taken in a light hearted way, with a clear understanding on my part of how the X-Plane modelling system works. Your assumption is therefore completely wrong. Fail indeed
You specifically used that example to imply that X-plane does not use the 3d model to calculate flight performance. Again, nice try.
I didn’t imply anything, but you have interpreted something incorrectly, and I have given my explanation. I know the intent of what I wrote and posted, not you. If I’d wanted to make the statement you are claiming I was, I’d just come out and write it. We’re done here.
For example, when the wind is from the right, you have a crab to the right, which is nose to the right. To de-crab, you need to apply the left rudder, the left-wing will drop if you don’t apply the aileron to the right. Show me how you do it in real 30+ knots crosswind component. Autoland is not showing that… and you can see clearly that the de-crab is without aileron to the side of the wind even in your video.
Look at the ailerons, do they seem to move at all? if you think you have better indications then look at the upright side of the screen you will see no ailerons input. Are you paying attention to the details? or you only want to see what you believe is true?
And you are 100% sure that the left wing is the upwind wing in your example?
Btw. I don’t know what you are looking at, but the above screenshot clearly shows right aileron and left rudder input on the flight controls page.
Yes, I love FS2020 very much, why do you think I am investing time to improve FS2020, If I had another simulator to prove my point, I would use it, Yes, I am also seeking kind users that know to argue with reasoning, instead of insulting, Now you can watch the real world aviation video on the performance of real pilots, and see how the video demonstrates real flight and de-crabbing from the crosswind, but please don’t say it is impossible to simulate everything from the real world. that is why I have given a perfect example of another simulator so that you will not think it is impossible because I have heard people say, it is not possible to program everything from real-world aviation.
The ailerons will move as long as you give roll input. How can bank happen otherwise?
I am not good at x-wind landing, but x-wind takeoff is easier. I give roll input upwind every time I feel upwind wing tend to rise and the compensation works.
Why not give x-wind takeoff a try since landing is tougher? The physics behind the scene is roughly the same.
You are close. Asobo writes: “To this aim, an original normalization algorithm has been developed, that helps redistribute global aerodynamics coefficients and tables as provided by user across all surface elements so that the final forces and moments match the ones computed by FSX. Of course, this does not mean we are finally equivalent to FSX modelling, as forces are now distributed over all the aircraft geometry. It rather means that, when suming up all contributions, and thus losing geometrical distribution information, our more general model reduces to FSX historical model.”
My understanding: MSFS 2020 uses “1000 surfaces” to have different force vectors at different point at the airplane like left wing stalls, right wing does not stall. And IF you sum up these forces you get the FSX behavior. But MSFS 2020 does not “sum up”. Or to be even more precise:
"The normalization algorithm is performed only once at the beginning of the game session.
The idea is to pre-compute, during this initialization stage, lift, drag, side and moments normalization coefficients for a pre-defined set of controls configurations. More precisely, 20 configurations involving flaps and spoilers deflections have been chosen. For each of these 20 aircraft controls configurations, 6 normalization coefficients are computed and stored. … During the game, at each simulation step, this big look-up table linking a given controls state to a set of normalization coefficients will be used to linearly interpolate current normalization coefficients from the current aircraft controls configuration as input by player.
Summary: cfg files parameter and “1000 surfaces” 3D model go into the “virtual windtunnel” and 20 control configurations times 6 normalizations go out. This BIG table gets linear interpolation as the flight dynamics engine ticks away one time step after the other.
See file:///C:/MSFS%20SDK/Documentation/03-Content_Configuration/SimObjects/00-Aircraft/Flight_Model.html#normalization-algorithm
Please define “FS2030”. I know that Microsoft/Asobo told us that they will support MSFS 2020 for ten years. But does this really imply that there will be a “MSFS 2030” product?
