Moscow Russia - Downtown scenery is woefully lacking in FS-2024

[Jimrh1993]

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ISSUE DESCRIPTION

The scenery details within downtown Moscow Russia are abysmally lacking with major landmarks and buildings, including the Kremlin details missing.

Additionally, the surfaces are quite wavy in places they should be flat.

ICAO, coordinates, or specific location:
Moscow Russia.  Though I am showing a specific location as an example, this is generally true throughout the larger Moscow city area.

A quick comparison between the scenery in FS-2020 and FS-2024, (screen-shots are attached below), will show how remarkably abysmal the scenery is in FS-2024.

Additional notes: Other places nearby, (like Podolsk), are primarily satellite image shadows on the ground instead of being real buildings.

It should also be noted that this isn’t some location out in the middle of God’s Green Nowhere in the wilds of the Siberian Steppes, where houses are made of whatever pieces of would people can find, Moscow Russia is a major national capital and one would expect at least SOME attention to detail. (Maybe you should copy over the 2020 scenery? )

[PC Only] Did you remove all your community mods/add-ons? If yes, are you still experiencing the issue?

I have no extra scenery or add-ons installed as this is a generic install with no modifications or FS-2020 content carried over.

FREQUENCY OF ISSUE

How often does this occur for you (Example: Just once, every time on sim load, intermittently)?

It occurs every time the sim is used in this location.

REPRODUCTION STEPS

Please list clear steps you took in order to help our test team reproduce the same issue:

1. Start the sim
2. Go into free-flight mode
3. Use the world view to navigate to the Moscow Russia vacinity.
   • I usually select UUMO which is south of Moscow and move north to find the city center.
4. Select a location slightly south of the Kremlin Heliport as a custom departure location.
5. Start a free flight in any aircraft you wish. (I use a DV-20)
6. Once the flight starts, immediately pause it with the “ESC” key and go into free-camera mode.
7. Navigate north until you see the Kremiln. (See screen-shots below to help you recognize it.

YOUR SETTINGS

If the issue still occurs with no mods and add-ons, please continue to report your issue. If not, please move this post to the User Support Hub.

What peripherals are you using, if relevant:
A Saitek X52 HOTAS and a Logitech X-Box compatible game pad to control the camera view;

[PC Only] Are you using Developer Mode or have you made any changes to it?
No. I have never launched developer mode in FS-2024

[PC Only] What GPU (Graphics Card) do you use?
ASROCK Radeon RX 6800 Pro with 16g of VRAM

[PC Only] What other relevant PC specs can you share?
An entire listing of my system configuration can be found here:
https://forums.flightsimulator.com/t/what-ive-done-with-msfs-2024-so-far/689826/2

MEDIA

Please add a screenshot or video of the issue occurring.

First screenshot: A view of the Kremlin from within FS-2024

 

This is a shot of Red Square showing the shopping mall “GUM” (which looks like a factory building.)  Note that the grouond is NOT level like it should be.

 

An Arial view of the Kremlin showing a lack of basic detail.
Note that I am using winter views to avoid seasonal tree and shrub obstructions.

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Similar views from FS-2020:
Note that there is a lot of accurate detail.  Particularly in the last view you can see in the mid-left a long building which was the imperial stables, and is now used as a permanent flea-market/product exhibition hall.  If you follow the line of the building to the right and upward, you will see a small dome.  That is a large underground mall’s skylight that is a stained-glass representation of the northern hemisphere.  Further up-right you can see the Bolshoi Theater.

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Similar views from FSX:
Note that the details aren’t as extensive as in FS-2020, but the main details are there including the Kremlin Wall, the Kremlin Clock-Tower, and St Basil’s Cathedral.

[END OF FIRST USER REPORT]

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Do you have the same issue if you follow the OP’s steps to reproduce it?
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[twenty4fan9O]

a solution is to get Drzweicki’s Moscow City

[TOLOWTERRAIN723]

its too bad that moscow doesnt have photogrammetry
but given that they need authorization to fly an airplane at low altitude over the government district
i don’t think that’s happening anytime soon

[Jimrh1993]

@twenty4fan9O

a solution is to get Drzweicki’s Moscow City

Yup - but he doesn’t have one for -2024 yet AFAIK and I hesitate to import any 2020 stuff since the sim is already borked up enough as it is.

Both his and rkbridger’s would be the first add-ons I would buy when they become available - unless PMDG publishes a DC-6 for 2024 first.

P.S.
I bought a couple of handfuls of both Drzweicki’s and rkbridger’s stuff that I absolutely don’t need, just to keep my hand in.  IMHO, they’ve earned our support!

[twenty4fan9O]

I imported it and it’s fine

[Jimrh1993]

@TOLOWTERRAIN723

its too bad that moscow doesn’t have photogrammetry
but given that they need authorization to fly an airplane at low altitude over the government district
i don’t think that’s happening anytime soon.

Then how did they get the scenery for 2020, FSX, and Century of Flight?  (And FS-2000 for that matter.)  I don’t expect to be able to walk up to the Kremlin’s “Honor Wall” and read the inscription on Stalin’s grave plaque, but they did so much better in 2020, (and earlier sims) - it makes no sense that the present scenery is so hideous - and with the scenery assets they have, it’s inexcusable.

Seriously!  What if they got Washington DC, London, Paris, Dubai, or any other significant capital city - not just “wrong”, but so abysmally wrong its insulting?  There’d be a hue-and-cry you could hear in interstellar space!
 

@TOLOWTERRAIN723

they need authorization to fly an airplane at low altitude over the government district

Whooo-boy!

Have you seen any of the charts for the Moscow area?  You’d probably end up better off if you busted the airspace over LAX or JFK while flapping your arms.  Even Aeroflot doesn’t fly over Moscow proper, they always land going in a different direction.

But that doesn’t excuse the poor scenery, especially since they already have it.  If Drzweicki can do it, (he’s from Poland as I remember, and, (AFAIK), both Poles and Russians have a real spite again’ each other), if HE can get the goods for his excellent scenery - someone the size of MS/Asobo should have zero problems at all.

[GIEI]

Drzweicki’s Moscow Landmarks works fine in FS2024

[WarStalker2b]

In MSFS 2024, I noticed that landmarks like the Kremlin and St. Basil’s Cathedral were still missing, just as they were in MSFS 2020. In fact, during my last days playing MSFS 2020, shortly before MSFS 2024 was released, I observed that these landmarks were absent. I believe this is because, at some point, the imagery from mapping services like Google Maps was blurred for these areas (similar to certain airbases like Solenzana and Istres in France).

For example, in MSFS 2024, the aerial imagery for Istres Air Base still appears blurry, likely because the photogrammetry was created during a time when high-resolution imagery wasn’t available. However, if you check mapping platforms today, the area around Istres is perfectly clear. This seems to be the same issue affecting central Moscow.

That said, I did notice that Moscow State University is exceptionally well done in MSFS 2024—far better than in MSFS 2020. Hopefully, these areas will be updated in future scenery improvements. It’s always great to see iconic landmarks receive the attention they deserve.

[Jimrh1993]

@WarStalker2b

That said, I did notice that Moscow State University is exceptionally well done in MSFS 2024—far better than in MSFS 2020.

Which server are you connected to?  You gotta be getting better scenery than I am.  (I think I’m connected to the Western Europe server, at least that’s where I was the last time I checked.)  Maybe there’s a scenery cache I should dump?

But that doesn’t answer the fundamental question:

If Drzweicki, (from Poland^[1] of all places!), can get great scenery, why can’t MSobo?

==================== Footnotes ====================

1. I don’t mean to sound like I’m knocking Drzweicki or Poland, I hear Poland is a phenomenal place and I need to fly there sometime to see the scenery.
    
   What I’m trying to say is that Poles and Russians haven’t been on good terms since the Second World War and the division of Europe.  If Drzweicki can get details of Moscow City that are so good that you can almost see the bugs on the motorcyclist’s teeth, why can’t MSobo?

[WarStalker2b]

@Jimrh1993

Which server are you connected to? You gotta be getting better scenery than I am. (I think I’m connected to the Western Europe server, at least that’s where I was the last time I checked.) Maybe there’s a scenery cache I should dump?

But that doesn’t answer the fundamental question:

If Drzweicki, (from Poland[1] of all places!), can get great scenery, why can’t MSobo?

==================== Footnotes ====================

1. I don’t mean to sound like I’m knocking Drzweicki or Poland, I hear Poland is a phenomenal place and I need to fly there sometime to see the scenery.

What I’m trying to say is that Poles and Russians haven’t been on good terms since the Second World War and the division of Europe. If Drzweicki can get details of Moscow City that are so good that you can almost see the bugs on the motorcyclist’s teeth, why can’t MSobo?

The difference likely comes down to the scale of the work. Asobo is creating detailed scenery for the entire planet, using AI to assist with modeling and populating countless landmarks, like the Hôtel Méridien, the Centre Culturel Tjibaou, and the Phare Amédée in Nouméa, New Caledonia.

The Phare Amédée even includes a moving part at the top that reacts to wind conditions—a great example of the level of detail Asobo incorporates into unique landmarks worldwide.

Drzewiecki, on the other hand, focuses on specific areas with a much smaller scope, allowing for a higher level of manual detail in those locations. Both approaches have their strengths, but it’s impressive that MSFS provides such a rich global experience while still featuring so many unique, handcrafted landmarks.

[Jimrh1993]

@WarStalker2b

The difference likely comes down to the scale of the work. Asobo is creating detailed scenery for the entire planet, using AI to assist with modeling and populating countless landmarks, like the Hôtel Méridien, the Centre Culturel Tjibaou, and the Phare Amédée in Nouméa, New Caledonia.

Drzewiecki, on the other hand, focuses on specific areas with a much smaller scope, allowing for a higher level of manual detail in those locations. Both approaches have their strengths, but it’s impressive that MSFS provides such a rich global experience while still featuring so many unique, handcrafted landmarks.

Absolutely!

However, I still stand by my opinion that MSobo should have made at least some effort with a major capital city.

As a QA specialist from days gone by - this makes me ask what other major cities were passed-over? Warsaw?  Prague?  Berlin?  Rome?  It’s still disgraceful.

If they’re that hard-up for scenery in Russia, let 'em talk to Yandex.

[Jimrh1993]

“Installed” (enabled the transfer over of) the Drzewiecki Desgns Moscow Landmarks and:

1. It looks much better than before.
2. Many buildings are covered in white, as if they’ve been spray-painted white or certain buildings, (Drzewiecki’s?), aren’t considered “buildings” by the simulator and are treated like they’re terrain?

[GIEI]

IIRC is a problem with the snow coverage. For testing purposes try to fly in summer.

[Jimrh1993]

@GIEI

IIRC is a problem with the snow coverage. For testing purposes try to fly in summer

That’s what I figured - add-in buildings aren’t “buildings”.   Especially since I normally fly with the month set to “June”.

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However, here is a FS-2020 picture of his scenery taken in “June”:

 

Note that the “added” buildings surrounding the Kremlin are all whiter than the rest of them.  It’s almost like the buildings inside the central ring road were dusted white.

[Marklar666]

@Jimrh1993

Yup - but he doesn’t have one for -2024 yet AFAIK and I hesitate to import any 2020 stuff since the sim is already borked up enough as it is.

Most sceneries work fine in FS2024. I have dozen of paid and free addons that have not been officially ported to the new game and they work fine. It’s usually planes that don’t work properly. Sceneries are just 3D objects, nothing else.

Drzewiecki released updates to most of their airports this week, I don’t have Moscow addon but maybe it has been updated too.

[Jimrh1993]

@Marklar666

Drzewiecki released updates to most of their airports this week, I don’t have Moscow addon but maybe it has been updated too.

Where?

There’s no marketplace that I know of as yet.

[Marklar666]

On every 3rd party store that sells Drzewiecki products. Contrails and Simmarket are two examples.

[CommonBloom31]

@Marklar666

Drzewiecki

Yes, on Contrails they have it, MSFS2024 compatible.

[PinkyPikachu]

Do you have the same issue if you follow the OP’s steps to reproduce it?
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Yes, I’m having the same issues, not only in Moscow but also in St. Petersburg and the Leningrad Region. In some places, buildings don’t render because where the ground should be flat, the simulator shows a hill instead. There were no such problems in 2020, but in 2024, the elevation map has errors in many areas. However, when using the developer mode in the scenery editor and applying a flatten polygon to those spots, the hill disappears and the building starts to display correctly. Also, many airfields in the Leningrad Region are full of terrain irregularities, including ones that are critical for their usability
Provide extra information to complete the original description of the issue:
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As an example, in the screenshots, the airfield ULLY is mistakenly identified by the simulator as UKRO.

If relevant, provide additional screenshots/video:
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