Well, if the masses are wiling to build it - under $400 in parts and free software is actually not expensive at all. Yes, off-the-self systems that are comparable or better cost thousands…
My DIY 2DOF Motion Platform for MSFS - adding a whole new immersion level to VR, on a budget - VIDEO
I am! Your post inspired me to trying it out. However, I’m struggling with finding those nice motors over here in Germany…
Check out XSimulator forums, there are many Germans there - they can advise on good motors comparable to PGSaw, or you could even order PGSaw on ebay, I think he ships worldwide. People there build crazy rigs, and are very helpful.
I happen to own and fly a Bonanza in real life, that was pretty cool! I have a couple questions and comments:
If you are turning, and making a coordinated turn, you shouldn’t feel any lean at all, regardless of bank angle. The G’s should pull straight down toward the bottom of your seat. I was surprised to see the seat lean when you turned…? On the other hand, if you made an uncoordinated turn, or in turbulence, there may be some lean. I understand the concept of feeling acceleration, which is great, but I don’t think that’s a thing in a normal coordinated turn.
I think it would have been very interesting to see a stall. In the Bonanza, a dirty stall with about half power would be the most interesting.
One note on your trim wheel: You have the sensitivity WAY too low. The trim wheel is very sensitive, and should only need a 1/4 inch of turn or less to make a change. For a major power change, such as when on short final, you may need to turn the wheel about 1/2 - 3/4 of the way around to get trimmed up for landing.
I have a very limited experience in GA aircraft, and almost no experience at controls, not enough to know how close to reality I have programmed my rig. It feels fairly close, as far as I recall from the recent flight in a Cessna 152. In my profile I’m mixing pure accelerations with a percentage of the aircraft position. I tried only pure accelerations at first - that would result in what you are describing, no lean in a coordinated turn. But it somehow felt wrong. I wanted to feel a bit of leaning in turns, even though it may not be 100% realistic. I made many adjustments since the video, and added a lot of custom hardware. So it would look a bit different now, but there’s still some lean. But nothing is preventing yo from not mixing it in at all. That you’d get pure acceleration cues. That’s what I use in Elite Dangerous (a space sim) and it works quite well, but there’s a lot of motion there. In MSFS if I’d just use accelerations, there won’t be much motion most of the time, and I feel that a slight motion helps feeling “disconnected” with the ground. I even added some “noise” function dependent on the speed: so I feel some very subtle random movements when flying. And another noise function for the ground roll - more pronounced “road noise”.
The idea is that with FlyPT Mover you can tweak it in any way you want, so it feels real to you.
Also, the whole rig tricks your brain in weird ways, you do feel much more motion when the rig can actually provide, and you feel it differently. When I run the roller coaster in Elite Roller Coasters for the first time - it was so scary and I felt falling down in my chest, just like in real life, despite knowing it’s not real and the limited range of motion of the rig. So you should dial it in so it feels good and real to you, and disregard what are the actual movements happening, as long as your brain is tricked into thinking it’s real.
You can tweak the software to translate motion however you like. For instance, I use Roll Rate for roll, so when you roll left, the rig actually rolls right. The faster you roll, the more the rig tilts as long as the roll rate is increasing. As the roll rate decreases, the rig will begin to return to center regardless of your final bank angle. I do own an RV8 IRL and I’ve found this to be the most convincing setup.
Longitudinal accel/decel and G’s are simulated by mixing the rig tilt and again that’s tunable. I have a G-seat which simulates sustained G forces using paddles that push on your butt and back combined with belts that tension. Works fairly well, but I mostly don’t even bother turning it on for MSFS.
I have found that a lot of motion is not ideal for flying, no rig can move or return to center fast enough, so you get false cues. Lesser travel, adjusted to match the speed of your actuators, works best.
For guys contemplating this, if you are handy SFX-100 actuators are the way to go. I’ve used a few different types over the years, but SFX combined with a Thanos board to control them is an excellent combination that’s affordable and lots of well documented builds out there for support.
Fantastic!! I’m very impressed. I was doing a research months ago of how to build a flight motion sim like yours but all that I saw was principally for racing (or flight but not 2DOF). You now make grow my interest. One think concerns me is the power of the motors, all the wiper motors that I find seems weak to move my weight. I find some wheelchair motors in Aliexpress but I think I can find a recicled (or reused) wiper motor but I need to know the torque and power that it needs. Can you tell me the complet specs of your motors. Really thanks and congrats!!!
I bought 2 motors from PGSaw on ebay for $109 each plus $25 shipping for both , they were advised to be the best budget solution for motion platforms. I’m very happy with them. But they seem to be out of stock now for a while. The challenge was attaching the arms to the shafts so they won’t become lose with time - there’s a lot of torque. I ended up having my friend help me to cut and weld the arms to the shafts. I even moved the rods from 60mm to 80mm from the shaft and there’s plenty of power. I’m 80kg but I tested it on my friend who’s 100kg and it was fine.
The specs of those motors as listed:
- 12 VOLT DC
- 180 WATTS (.24 HP)
- 50:1 RATIO
- OUTPUT SPEED 75-80 RPM
- HAS A HOLE THROUGH SHAFT
- WEIGHS 3 KG OR 6.6 LBS
- DIMENSIONS ARE L=9" X W=3" X H= 5-1/4"
- LOAD BETWEEN 50-60 N.M
- NO LOAD AMP DRAW 1.6-1.9
Thanks. I’m from Europe so the shipping is a bit more expensive but now, knowing the specs I will find similar motors here.
Again thank you very much!
You’re welcome. Good luck with your build!
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I’ve been asked to post the profile for my motion platform. Here is is. Please note that all rigs are different and just loading this profile into your system may not work, or damage your system (or you). This is intended for a reference only. If you merge it with your profile and map it to your rig - test using visualizer on a depowered rig first. Use it on your own risk. You may need to name the file appropriately.
Roman Rig MSFS.Mover.pln (19.1 KB)
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Do you use FlyPT Mover? Could you share your profile? I also have an SFX100 and have just received my new Thanos board.
Is it a 3dof with traction loss?
I have one for fixed wing, and one for helicopters. I can post both tmrw night.
Mine is 3 dof but no traction loss.
Wow! I love the simplicity.
Me too. And it feels great. All those mixed-in motion cues like surge (accelerating and braking), sway (left-right side slip motion) and to a lesser degree heave (up-down acceleration) feel surprisingly realistic, considering only 2 motors are working. I guess there’s this “disconnected from ground” feel and VR immersion are tricking my brain pretty well.
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