It’s jarring for me to fly the Cessna 172 because it has virtually no left turning tendencies. I fly the C172 in real life and from the moment I hit the throttle to the moment I land, I’m almost always on the right rudder (with of course a few exceptions). My leg is usually tired after an hour long real life flight from having to continually press on the right rudder. In the real world, if you go from idle to full throttle you MUST push hard on the right rudder to keep the airplane straight.
In the SIM, this is not at all present. I’ve tried going into the flight_model.cfg and changing parameters like p_factor_on_yaw and torque_on_roll with little effect.
Any tips on modifying the C172 to better simulate left turning tendencies ?
If you needed right rudder during level cruise flight, then the aircraft should have gone into the shop. You should need no rudder at all during level flight. Right rudder on takeoff and climb, slight left rudder in glide, but no rudder in cruise if the rudder trim (or fixed metal tab) is properly adjusted.
Ok, fine, I did say with some exceptions… I don’t cruise very much during an hour long flight. I’m usually in the pattern doing touch and goes or working on ground reference maneuvers . Even on takeoff and climb in MSFS there is zero left turning tendencies. When I’m taking off at full throttle the airplane just goes straight. That is /NOT/ at all accurate.
Assuming you have your realism settings for this turned all the way up, from which relative direction was the wind blowing?
There is plenty of left-turn tendency with a calm or left crosswind in the sim, but if it’s a right crosswind, the sim ground handling dynamics are all messed up and the weathervaning effect overcomes both left turning and wheel friction. You may actually find yourself needing left rudder on takeoff.
Definitely check your assistance settings. Every GA piston single engine aircraft has quite realistic left turning P-factor on takeoff and climb. Have you tried warbirds such as the Flying Iron Spitfire. BIG TIME left turning tendency on takeoff. Sounds like you have realism settings OFF.
Isn’t that what rudder trim is for? I always have to set a bit of rudder trim in the Warriors I fly (technically, I check it, since I rent and it’s already set). If you always have some right rudder, why not set the trim appropriately (usually during your favorite cruise state)?
The 172 absolutely does not. All assistance settings are off, I even used the disable_assistances flag in flight_model.cfg according to the SDK to double ensure.
100% the C-172 does not have realistic p-factor by any stretch of the imagination.
The amount you need varies greatly on speed and throttle. Rudder trim has it’s place, but it’s not going to compensate for takeoff, or increasing throttle.
Respectfully, the 172 flies very much like those I’ve flown IRL. Do you have the same result with other aircraft regarding left turning P-factor on takeoff? Again you should need no right rudder trim in level flight if the aircraft is set up properly unless you have a wing tank imbalance or a load of bowling balls on one side of the plane.
whoever is saying the 172 in MSFS is perfoming accurately has no idea about the left turning tendencies in real life, if you even a slight right crosswind the aircraft will try to turn right because of the air passing through the stabilator but this it not accurate at all because ground friction and p factor should be the main effects on the airplane behavior
vertical stabilizer, you get the point. they have partially fixed it now in sim update 12. does not perform perfectly but still much better than before.
My experience is completely the opposite of this: with controls neutral, the aircraft will gradually enter an increasingly steep left bank. This is very noticeable with RPM > 2300 and/or on climb, but even at approx 2100 in straight and level flight it will still bank to the left. Is this “real” behavior? Modern flight model, all assists off, calibrated controls (and have reproduced this with keyboard only so no “drift”), etc.
I’ve found that right rudder is not sufficient to counteract this, especially on climb out. Is it normal to need a little right aileron also?
Thank you!
Yep. High power settings, high pitch, high Angle of Attack, and low airspeed (usually in conjunction) increase those left-turning and spiral tendencies.
There’s a reason there are hats and t-shirts that say “more right rudder.”
The rudder trim tab on the 172 is set for a very narrow range of airspeed, so if you’re below that, you’ll likely be slowly banking/turning left, uncorrected.
The WB-Sim C172 Enhansement Mod has the option to set (and state save) the Rudder Ground Adjustment tab. that can be adjusted so the plane flies straight in Cruise.
Note: This is NOT pilot controlled, rudder trim – the C172SP does not have that … but it is the fixed Ground Adjustment tab, that, for realism, can only be adjusted when the plane is on the ground, stationary, with the engine not running.
All great feedback, thank you! I know this is slightly off-topic but hopefully relevant: is it typical that there are persistent vertical oscillations during straight and level flight as well? I’m struggling to get level flight at a set throttle (say 2200 ish) and trim without the plane going through +/-500 ft/min “swings” that never really seem to settle out. Sometimes it settles for 5-10 seconds before another swing, but even with trying to use the yoke to keep speed level it still eventually goes up or down. Altitude about 2000 AGL and with Clear Weather / zero wind for testing. Again, not sure if this represents “real” experience, or just a quick of the sim?
Thank you!
