Hi folks. I’ve recently just started a subscription to Navigraph Charts and I just had a quick navigational related question, specifically with regards to the SID departure from EGLL (Heathrow).
(I realise I am looking for advice directly related to flying rather than the software itself, so please move this thread if deemed necessary!)
I frequently perform flights between EGLL (Heathrow) and EGPF (Glasgow) (and vice versa), and have pulled the real-world flight plans from the EDI-GLA database. With regards to the flight from Heathrow to Glasgow, I can’t seem to find the correct SID when departing from runway 27L/R.
As you can see the first initial waypoint is ULTIB. Departing from runways 09L/R is absolutely fine, as their SID’s link directly up with ULTIB, however there are no SIDs which link up with ULTIB after departing from 27L/R.
Am I missing something or misunderstanding the departure procedures? Does the flight plan/initial waypoints change depending on the runway used? Or do you fly a SID which takes you in the vicinity of the airway you intend to join (in this case BPK7G)? I’m just aiming to make the flight plans as genuine as possible!
Any help is much appreciated, and my apologies again if this thread is in the wrong location.
Ah right, ok, understood. Thanks for your reply and checking that out for me! So it would appear that the intial series of waypoints/airway would change depending on the departure runway?
If that’s the case then you would have to know what runway is in use prior to loading in the flight plan. I may just have to change my routine and do it that way.
Before, I would generate my flight plan WITHOUT the SID, and only load the SID once I’m sitting in the cockpit and have been advised by clearance on which runway is in use. I had always just assumed this was the way it was done?
Simbrief is usually pretty good at “guessing” what the active runway will be, but if ingame ATC does have a different view, then, as you say, you can always change the departure runway/SID, before you taxi.
The same applies to the arrival, as changes in the active runway after you have taken off/filed your FP, might lead ATC to change your landing runway and STAR. I say “might”, as ATC doesn’t always do what you might expect.
Just some input:
Im using SimBrief for flightplanning and Navigraph charts aswell. Sometimes, more often that i would like, somehow the SID SimBrief choses doesnt match the runway it suggests. Seems like there is a bug in there or between the navigraph import of the SimBrief-Route. However, always review the suggested route and make changes accordingly.
When you pick a departing Runway in Navigraph, the SID will be filtered to show you the best SID for your flight plan. Here’s an example using your exact same route.
First pick the departing runway from the departing airport.
Once you pick that, when you click the Departures, it will show you the best SID coming from your chosen runway to the first waypoint in your route. See the one I highlighted yellow in the picture below. Note that once I picked RWY 27L from the first pic, the second pic shows RW27L to UMLAT which is the UMLA1G SID. Just pick that and the flight plan will load that way.
As you have kindly outlined Neo, that was the way I tried it initially (before trying to copy the real-world flight plan). The method you describe works perfectly, thanks for that! However, the same issue would then present itself if I was departing from 09L/R… there are no SIDs from 09L/R that lead to UMLAT.
I just thought it was rather odd there isn’t a published SID for departure from 09, like there is for 27.
Yeah, I was thinking that might be the most straightforward way of doing it. Cheers!
I figured why not look at the flight history of BA (whom I’m simulating), and it’s evident the flight plan changes depending on the runway afterall, judging by the route…
I guess the difference between the navigraph flight planning and the built in msfs flight planning is that, the waypoint tends to be a bit more flexible in the msfs world map.
For example in navigraph regardless of which SID from whichever runway you choose, the route will always take you to UMLAT.
But in the built in world map in MSFS, when you pick a different runway and SID, chances are the first waypoint will change and will not be UMLAT anymore but another waypoint that will give you the most optimal route.
I guess this is why I don’t use Navigraph or SimBrief to make my flight plans. I always use the world map flight planning tool. I find its flexibility is a blessing for me to have the most optimal route without thinking about it too much. But then again I’m not trying to simulate real world route, so I don’t really care if my flight plans are “accurate” or not. As long as I can get from point A to point B in IFR High Airways at 38/39000 feet. I’m happy.
I only use Navigraph to have an idea on which SID or STAR to use based on my route. Then I choose it manually in the world map.
The SID always changes according to the runway of course, and with it, also the flightplan, atleast for the departure till the first route-waypoint. A SID is given by the ATC, so IRL the pilot only knows the exact SID and the active runway after getting the IFR clearance and might have to adjust the route in the FMC accordingly.
Depending on the airport, at some times there are “Noise abatement” departures active, so the SID can change in night time or weekends, this depends on the Airport.
That’s a massive help guys! That’s cleared up a lot of confusion. It’s evident that it’s quite difficult to simulate “real world” flight plans, and I guess I shouldn’t be so obsessive about getting them 100% accurate I’ll also just need to get used to updating the FMC manually.
For a long time I’ve been using LittleNavMap, and it’s been excellent, and very feature-filled with weather included aswell. I’ve been using it to generate and export my flight plans which I then load into FS2020. Though the AIRAC cycle by default is old (2018), partly the reason why I subscribed to Navigraph as it updates the AIRAC on LNM aswell.
It’s just ever since updating to the latest AIRAC that the confusion presented itself. Navigraph is nice, especially because of the charts, but I’ll probably continue using LNM instead.
+1 for LNM. I’ll usually take the suggestion by SimBrief, but ultimately I’ll always end up validating everything via LNM because it’s by far the easiest of all to figure out and offers the most options.
