Need thoughts on this VFR Arrival Landing Pattern (from MSFS Training)

Just curious on this landing pattern (see image).

Assuming that it is Left Pattern and pilot descend and merge at 45 deg downwind (right) instead of realigning by going from over the airstrip as shown in this pattern from MSFS tutorial.

Thoughts on which to be used and when?

pretty sure that’s not a correct pattern entry procedure. The tutorial has you coming in higher than pattern altitude though, so you’re not directly coming into the pattern.

I suppose the correct way would be to either start descending sooner, and enter the pattern at a 45 degree angle, or to overfly the airport, descend, and enter the pattern at 45 degrees from the other side.

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That’s how I do it in real life. If you don’t know the active runway you have to fly over the runway and look at the windsock. Then descend to circuit height on the deadside before joining crosswind as shown in the pic. If you knew the runway in use prior (i.e. other aircraft in the circuit then I’d join 45 refresh downwind.

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That’s how they teach you, especially at an uncontrolled field.

The screen grab below is taken from the FAA’s Pilot’s Handbook of Aeronautical Knowledge. Chapter 14 is all about Airport Operations.

Screen Shot 2021-08-03 at 9.59.13 PM

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Looks like an overhead join ? You have a second pattern above the landing pattern. If the airport is busy you can fly round until you can enter the landing pattern. Some airports have a mandatory OHJ

But in your case, looks like this technique (Preferred Entry crossing mid-field) is for aircraft coming from upwind side to align with downwind side for Left Pattern.

But if I am already entering from downwind side, FAA handbook says that “…The preferred method for entering from the downwind side of the pattern is to approach the pattern on a course 45 degrees to the downwind leg and join the pattern at midfield…”

Now this makes the VFR tutorial interesting where it doesn’t uses the preferred method. This being said, crossing the airfield w/ additional turns (unless needed) adds additional risks.

Chapter 14 Page 14-2

“Nontowered airport traffic patterns are always entered at
pattern altitude. How you enter the pattern depends upon the
direction of arrival. The preferred method for entering from
the downwind side of the pattern is to approach the pattern
on a course 45 degrees to the downwind leg and join the
pattern at midfield.
There are several ways to enter the pattern if you’re coming
from the upwind leg side of the airport. One method of entry
from the opposite side of the pattern is to announce your
intentions and cross over midfield at least 500 feet above …”

“…to either start descending sooner, and enter the pattern at a 45 degree angle …”

Yea, not sure and curious why they didn’t do that. If there was any altitude terrain related obstruction/limitation (unless I missed) that would have made sense.

Would it not be wonderful it there was some actual written documentation on what is or was supposed to happen so we could at least know what the computer expects us to do. Check YouTube for info on how to complete successfully, I had too.

Why not ; depend of the country ; a descent on the dead side is used in UK, I think. The 45 degrees method (the « socks », in french) isn’t easy for new or low trained pilots. The method I teached to my student pilots was to overfly (on non towered fields) then fly the same heading as the runway in use during 1 mn and begin the descent during the 180 to join the downwind, announcing positions on radio. It’s quite easier.

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Yep normally we descend dead side.

I knew it, never like everyone else, f*****g Great British :rofl:!!

No, it’s just the rest of you are terribly inferior, old boy. We invented flying, after all.

More or less :grin:…

It’s actually a PITA really. If you are doing ATC stuff whether flying or controlling different platforms are subtly different, VATSIM, MSFS and IF.

I think if you play multiplayer, all the new Xbox guys really don’t care !
It’s difficult enough just to put the wheels on the runway !

FAA Aeronautical Information Manual (AIM)

https://www.faa.gov/air_traffic/publications/media/aim_basic_dtd_10-12-17.pdf

It’s not so much the direction from which you’re approaching the field, but the need to overfly the field first to check it out and see which way the windsock is pointing. If you don’t need to do that because you already know the field and wind conditions, then you would just enter on the 45 to the downwind leg. But otherwise you could overfly the field above the pattern, and then enter using the Seven7Tango’s 14-3 example:

image

As long as you take care to avoid departing traffic and traffic overflying the field from the other direction, that should be totally fine.

Is there a standard location where windsock is usually installed?

Excellent information on the AIM Manual. Thank you. Hmmm, links could have been provided inside a Read Me File for this and a whole lot more. I get that MS/ASOBO partnered with a lot of aftermarket companies to provide information, spread the wealth. But, having links to all that information would have been nice instead of having to hunt all of it up and peacemeal assemble it and put in logical place. I have a seperate folder on my D drive for MSFS stuff only, it is not connected to the sim, so don’t have to worry about losing it when updates occur. I keep updates on planes, navigation, manuals youtube videos, all kinds of stuff. FWIW-Nero makes or markets a program to download and keep videos from various websites. Its called “Video Downloader Ultimate”, and I capture lots of videos on various segments of this sim to my HDD, so I can watch them more than one time. I refer back to them time and time again. Also, excellent presentation under traiining on this forum on 787 navigation process, it is several months old, but most of it is still good info. You can copy it to your system by highlighting it and pasting it into word, or wordpad. I edited some of it since the copied pittures don’t print well. I keep it on as desk reference for that plane.

I don’t know if there are standardized locations, beyond just somewhere along the runway where traffic enters or can see it easily, like the runway ends and/or midfield by the ramp.