Does the 170 even have rudder trim? Tried to put some in in flight today but did not note any difference. Need to check my controller bindings though to be sure…
I’m fairly certain it has no rudder trim. I’ll just try and get better. I do find the Waco worse, but both are tough for me.
The 170 does not have rudder trim. Not even the 172’s Cessna is selling today have rudder trim.
Shamrockonefive, who writes for the Stormbirds blog, has mentioned the issue of rudder swerve on takeoff with other taildraggers as well. He noted the issue to be present on the P-40B and remarked that it seems to be an MSFS coding issue versus a fault of the aircraft devs.
They all have it. Even the C140 which is probably the most forgiving and easy to land of all the tail draggers in game.
Ground handling in game is not ideal even for tricycle aircraft. The JF P28’s for example need nose up trim during the takeoff roll or they wheelbarrow and are all over the shop.
The sudden swerve when rotating seems to be connected with the abrupt way the game suddenly transitions from “on the ground” to “in flight” the instant the wheels lose contact with the ground.
4 Likes
What is the technique you use for takeoff, e.g. stick back and into the wind, add full power, stick forward let the tail come up?
Does it improve the swerving?
Yesterday I changed my rudder pedals to a fully linear curve. The rudder is sensitive as hell still but at least it is linear so it makes it easier to correct the swerve when it sets in. Before I was often over correcting.
2 Likes
I will have to try that with the linear curve, interesting. Not on the 170, but in general.
thanks for mentioning this.
I did the same thing. It does help a bit but makes other aircraft a bit too twitchy (the reason I had turned down sensitivity in the first place). I do think it’s a sim issue: the default Pitts does the same thing when the tail wheel comes up. For whatever reason the xCub is very sedate, which seems odd since it has a good amount of power for its weight.
The developers have said most of the swerving on take off is due to the friction model for the tires. It’s either on or off, whereas in reality, there’s a bit of sway in the tire and the friction more gradually goes away as the weight is lifted off the tires.
I think it shows up more in tail draggers because the CG is behind the wheels.
They are working on improving this.
You will in fact have better takeoffs in Pipers for real if you dial in some up elevator trim. Otherwise they like to wallow on the runway and say “I don’t wanna…”
2 Likes
I asked that specific question at the last dev Q&A. They stated that although they had made improvements from the legacy FSX code it is better now than it was. They quoted some ground speed figures that seemed a little low to me. I reviewed some footage of me taking off in gusty weather, and noted that it wasn’t until I was doing 74kts that the crosswind speed was at the full 20kts.
I would have to review their answer but I think they said they had improved it from something like 80m/s to 20m/s before crosswind comes in to effect. 74kts is 38m/s, so nearly double what they quoted. I may have those figures wrong so will need to dig the Q&A video out to confirm or refute.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sdhEbrNsBF0&t=2148s
So I had the units wrong! Seb states that there was no crosswind below 80ft/s, and they got this down to 10ft/s. There was no chance to refute this, but 10 feet per second is 5.9 knots! They are off by an order of magnitude at least, as no way do I get a 20 knot crosswind while dawdling along at 5.9 knots. 60 maybe.
But in any case, its not the planes fault, but some are more stable than others, it’s true.
1 Like
The swerve happens just as the tail becomes ‘fly able’.
In most taildraggers you add power smoothly and slowly until you can ‘fly the tail’ or have enough speed to get the tail wheel off the ground and use the rudder for directional control (better authority than the tail wheel) which also improves lift over the wing and improves the airplanes attitude (no longer dragging the tail along the ground - more efficient airspeed and less drag) then smoothly add more power and gently back on the stick to lift off the runway.
The ridiculous yaw moment in MSFS occurs right as the tail should become flyable. Instead of giving the pilot directional control and stability - all hell breaks loose
1 Like
Fellas, there’s no shame in just turning on the “autorudder on takeoff” assist until such a time as Asobo hypothetically fixes this. I wouldn’t say it’s much less realistic than the inauthentic and frustrating experience we currently have. I believe this setting also works on landing rollout too, which in some aircraft can be more useful.
You’ll still have to be prepared for a sudden yaw just as the plane starts flying then and the autorudder turns off.
3 Likes
Because, as I stated above, the friction is wrong at the tires, it’s either on or off. That’s why the change is so sudden. In real life, the change over to no friction is more gradual. They are working on it. I think they said they hope to have a new model by SU7.
1 Like
I get the sense that it isn’t just the tires - but anything at this point would be an improvement - one hopes
It’s not the tyres per se, but the static friction issues they have. If they allowed crosswinds while stationary, as in the real world as the wind doesn’t care whether you are moving or not, then the plane would be blown sideways. So they turn it off, and gradually increase it until you have more rudder authority.
I just wish there was a way of manually tweaking this as I would bring it down a lot further than it is currently, closer to what they suggested in the video, and accept the issues that come with it after I found the sweet spot.
I didn’t realize there was an auto rudder just for takeoff, I’ll have a look at that. Though I think an actual 170 pilot complained upthread that the Carenado version should require more rudder in flight, so maybe standard auto rudder would be ok too. 
Unfortunately the takeoff autorudder doesn’t seem to work for all planes. Carenado’s Waco for example seems to ignore it and is a general pain in the ■■■ with wheels on the ground anyway.
A huge portion of it is the combination of tire and friction change. The other parts are modeling of winds at ground level, and also modeling of the airflow over the rudder isn’t “finished”. But the big difference here is… why the sudden change? Because at that point, the friction just turns off, instead of gradually reducing so you don’t even notice the change.
2 Likes
Are the yoke rotation degree is the same for both aircraft in real life? Maybe this one has smaller angle of rotation?
In YouTube videos I’ve seen of the real life C170 it looks like the yoke has a full 90 degree rotation. It doesn’t appear to be so in the sim. It could be that Carenado modeled a different version. (Or I may be totally mistaken…)