After discussing this with another forum member, I thought it time to a) make the community aware, and b) perhaps debate the issue.
Anyone who bought Orbx products from the in-sim Marketplace may be dismayed to learn that they’ll have to pay the full amount again if they want a FS2024 version. Of course if you bought from Orbx directly your upgrade is absolutely free; however the excuse given is that the Marketplace doesn’t allow for free upgrades. Since I’ve not much experience with FS2024 or its Marketplace, I can’t confirm whether or not this is the case but 've been assured that it’s not, and that other devs have been managing to offer 2024 upgrades free of charge.
This is complete contempt for the community (particularly Xbox simmers) and if this is indeed how Orbx are choosing to operate henceforth, I for one will be thinking long and hard before buying another of their products. I’m not sure if you can simply export the Marketplace product into your FS2024 community folder and at least have a working version in the new sim, but this is beside the point.
I’m willing to compensate development time for the additional effort I’m sure is involved in porting, but at the end of the day the majority of the work has already been done and charging full price again is taking the proverbial.
I have 3000 addons in the Marketplace. So over the weeks, I have definitely had free upgrades to 2024.
Currently, MScenery is charging full price again for their addons (Yes, I bought a plane like the first month in the sim until I learned better). So the fact that Orbx is only on the Marketplace making customer pay full price again puts them in company of developers they really don’t want anything in common with.
I don’t understand why IniBuilds and Orbx is doing moves that do not sit well with customers. IniBuilds on their web site and on SimMarket, etc they charge $4.99 for an “Enhanced” upgrade and $9.99 for a “Premium” upgrade (unless it was first released after summer 2024 in which case it is free). However, on the Marketplace they are charging $5.99 for “Enhanced” and I forgot what they charged for Premium, but it was more on the MarketPlace. Now that is unfair to XBox users since that is the only source for addons. But if you are on PC and purchased through the Marketplace, that just makes customers angry and deters future purchases from the Marketplace.
I know the Microsoft team has said they will let developers set their prices for upgrades. However they might want to think about now talking to the developers. I can’t believe that Microsoft is good with pricing tactics that end up reducing their market share, something that they were quite proud of. I know with all the delays getting all my content updated, and now a pricing gouge for purchasing on the Marketplace, I cant see me buying new addons from there if alternatives are available.
Even if the Marketplace doesn’t allow for free upgrades (I’m not convinced of that though), they could still just charge a nominal upgrade fee like 0.99
For clarification, the in-sim Marketplace allows 3rd Party developers the following options when releasing an updated MSFS 2024 version of their MSFS (2020) products:
They can provide MSFS 2024 versions to existing customers at no additional charge (free upgrade)
They can charge an upgrade fee with a maximum cost up to the original full price of the MSFS (2020) add-on purchase price for the MSFS 2024 version
The choice whether to provide the new versions for free or to charge an upgrade fee (and how much of a fee to charge) is entirely with the developers themselves; Microsoft/Asobo do not influence this decision.
Well this is bad faith, incompetence or both from Orbx and given that is Orbx it will be very hard to distinguish which case it is.
As stated by Seedy they can give their upgrades for free in 2024 if they want.
(Free Yak-18 recommendation included).
As an example I just updated the Yak-18 from Nemeth Designs that I bought eons ago in the 2020 marketplace and the upgrade for 2024 was $0 to me, the plane is indeed enhanced, now chocks can be removed in the walk-around for example and surprisingly is quite good.
What perhaps concerns me most is that Orbx are basically gaslighting the community when they attempt to blame Marketplace rules. Apparently they’ve been quite rude to those wishing to discuss this on their forums — “like it or lump it”.
We had similar with PMDG over the Marketplace liveries but that was a little more palatable.
Purchased quite some stuff from ORBX…
I found recently with certain Addons from ORBX incompatibility issues.
Requested ORBX support, it has been a waste of time honestly.
Development isn’t a zero-cost thing. Aircraft/scenery dev isn’t for the faint of heart.
A friend of mine did a customization of a small, (make that read small), GA airfield way north of Moscow in X-Plane 11. It was essentially a paved strip with a gas pump, a porta-potty, and somewhere to stand outta’ the rain. He cleaned up a few details based on current satellite imagery, added PAPI lights, and generally neatened the place up. It took over a month for the very few details he added and modified.
The other side of this is that not all modifications are extensive, perhaps something like a few small tweaks and throw it at the wall to see if it sticks.
On the one hand, PMDG is basically re-writing the entire DC-6 aircraft for MSFS-2024 and knowing their reputation for quality and level of detail, I wouldn’t expect to pay less than full price.
On the other hand, if someone isn’t putting any significant effort into the update, (something I don’t know about so I neither confirm nor deny), then charging full price seems a bit excessive.
Nobody is obliged to give anything away for free - or a nominal cost. It’s up to the marketplace, (i.e. the customers), to decide if they did the right thing. If they did, the marketplace will reward them. If not, the marketplace will punish them.
I already feel like Microsoft/Asobo is punishing us by basically obsoleting 2020 after saying it would be the only version for the next ten years. This isn’t a cheap hobby once you start getting into add-ons. Sigh. I should add that until very recently, I was xbox only, so had no choice other than the marketplace, and decided to keep using it even after moving to PC because then everything was in one place. More fool me.
While I agree with this to an extent, it’s not good business practice to charge the full amount again, especially considering that many of their primary competitors are offering free upgrades. Also bear in mind that Orbx Store products are free to upgrade, so while one simmer enjoys a freebie, another is hammered by having to basically buy the product again. Quite a disparity.
Designing a FS2024-native version opens the door to a whole new audience — this is the incentive to keep your existing customers satisfied by either offering a free upgrade, or an upgrade at a considerable discount.
I think the IniBuilds model is pretty fair: a nominal upgrade fee for FS2024 native builds, while compatibility for existing products will be maintained and any new bugs introduced by Sim/World Updates dealt with.
Thank you @JakTrax78 for opening this topic! I own a lot of addons from Orbx, which I was forced to buy in the Marketplace back in the Xbox days. Some of these addons such as Stockholm, Melbourne or Paris Landmarks have been adapted for MSFS 2024 in recent weeks. None of these updates have yet arrived in the Marketplace 2024. Much worse, however, is the recommendation in the official Orbx Support Forum that you have to buy the addons you bought in the Marketplace again if you want to get the versions for MSFS 2024. And as JakTrax mentioned, the upgrades via Orbx direct are completely free.
A few days ago, I therefore asked Orbx support whether it was possible to transfer my addons to Orbx direct. Unfortunately, my request was rejected because, according to Orbx, a transfer would not be technically possible. This is of course nonsense. Just like Inibuilds and other developers, they could transfer my addons, but they don’t want to. And they can also offer the upgrades for free in the Marketplace. Obviously they don’t want to do that either.
As a final note. For me it’s absolutely fine to pay an upgrade price for work done. For example, I bought Ibiza, Palm Springs and Dubai as 2024 versions from Inibuilds. But a full price is not justified in my opinion. Marketplace customers are being treated like second-class buyers if they have to pay the full price again. If it stays that way, I’ll also think twice about buying any more add-ons from Orbx.
That begs the question of how extensive the “re-design” is.
PMDG typically produces aircraft the way a master carpenter produces fine furniture. Others appear to be like the picture of the aircraft wrapped with duct tape - thrown together with a wing and a prayer.
I’ll gladly pay full price for a PMDG update. I may not even WANT the updates from the other guys.
For me, the crucial question is not so much whether upgrades should be free, cost an additional fee or sometimes even the full price. In the end, every developer has to decide for themselves how much work they have invested and how they want to be paid for it. And we as customers can decide what price these upgrades are worth to us.
In the case of Orbx, however, it really bothers me that only Marketplace customers have to pay the full price for upgrades that are actually free. Asobo and Microsoft can’t like this business practice either, because it is a very strong argument against purchases in the Marketplace.
I stopped buying from ORBX when they released EGLC v2 a few weeks after I bought v1 on Marketplace. The update was free if I remember correctly or for a very small fee for people who bought it from their store. Because I bought it on Marketplace I would have to buy v2 for full price. Their archaic store won’t allow transfers from Marketplace like Contrail or iniBuilds so they won’t see any money from me again.
Just curious to know what product that was, if you’re comfortable sharing. The lowest price I’ve seen is US$1.99.
Interesting that people say the minimum price is $5.00. There’s stuff for sale in the Marketplace right now for $1.99. (Maybe they mean the minimum non-discounted price is $5.)
Orbx makes solid stuff, but I wouldn’t call them the best in the business. I like them because if I buy a product from them, it’s going to be of a certain standard. But their products don’t generally blow me away like some. Now, if they come out with their 2024 versions and they knock my socks off, that’s a different story. But I’m not expecting that, and right now, my mindset is that this is a cash grab by Orbx. I’ll happily have my mind changed when I start to see the 2024 products come out.
Part of the problem is that development for 2024 s overly complicated.. So much so that it’s sucked up all the air in the room, leaving no resources for maintaining 2020 add-ons.
Normally, when creating the next generation of an SDK, you include more advanced functionality that simplifies many common tasks, as well as simplifying anything in version 1.
