ANECDOTE: I forgot to say, MSFS is like trying to do too much all at the same time and keep it functioning. Meaning trying to squeeze too much down the pipe and expecting it to fit. IMO, I don’t see MSFS ever being a final finished product, it will always remain a work in progress and will forever have to be maintained to keep fixing the continuous issues that will always crop up. “I think”, if MSFS had of been built on its own architecture from scratch, we wouldn’t be where we are with the constant problems that plague it, IMO.
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Beautifully written. Yeah, I’ve almost given up on FS now, due to the constant crashing. Every night I try doing a medium range flight & either I get to land b4 it crashes back to the Xbox Home Screen while taxiing, or it crashes on final, or crashes mid flight. My last 4 Concorde flights ‘crashed’ to Xbox Home Screen. & every time it crashes, NO entry appears in my logbook. I estimate my logbook should show approx another 300+ hours in it now. I’m getting sooooo sick to death of the constant instability of the otherwise beautiful game/simulator. Is it EVER going to be fixed???
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I would also recommend to focus on fixing the data streaming/fixing the bandwidth usage issues.
I was having constant problems where the scenery and especially photogrammetry data weren’t downloading fast enough even though i have 300Mbit fiber connection.
The bandwidth is NEVER used to its full extent. It doesn’t even come close.
When i initially bought and installed the simulator last autumn, the whole process lasted almost three days, because the download speed was for some insane reason capped at 10Mbps.
WHY?
This wasn’t an issue on my side. Every other app or streaming service i use works as it should. My download speeds are fine in everything else.
This situation got a little better recently, but i’m still not seeing the traffic my bandwidth normally enables for any other program.
Today, yet again, i got a message that my bandwidth is too low to download photogrammetry data.
It isn’t.
It’s a 300Mbit fiberoptic line and there is no data limit.
My ping to microsoft servers is 9ms (minimum), 20ms (max).
Fix the online component please.
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Yes, because MSFS performance depends on data from Microsoft’s servers, and server loads and internet traffic patterns are always going to be “variable” MSFS needs to be more resilient and graceful when bandwidth is temporarily low or cut off. Also, messaging to the user needs to be more accurate and informative - when it’s the server, don’t blame the user’s bandwidth (“your bandwidth is too low”). It’s my 4th bullet point in my letter.
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Recommended high end spec is 50Mbps, it’s all you need and exactly what I have and I never get streaming problems. I suggest you ask your ISP to trace where your bottleneck lies and if there’s none then have someone look at your router and network adapter settings.
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I don’t have any bottleneck. This is an old, well documented Microsoft/Asobo issue. There’s an entire megathread about bandwidth problems happening all over the world.
There was a theory that certain ISPs throttled DL speeds from certain MS data servers not to get overwhelmed during Win update peaks. Still Microsoft issue.
One would expect that they would provide separate data distribution hubs specifically for MSFS.
Something did change lately, but i’m still nowhere to 300Mbit. But even the 100ish i’m getting now is a godsend after the initial pre-broadband speed issues that had to be circumvented by using VPNs.
That I disagree with, to me it’s mostly rants blaming anyone but their own set up. For sure sporadic server problems happen however in my experience they are always fixed quickly so just consider how much fuller this forum would be of complaints if everyone else was continually suffering as you do. Yes you have a great ping and no doubt the best internet available in your area but IMO something between you and the MSFS servers isn’t quite right and I’m sorry to say it might take an expert to spot.
Oh and beware of mining bots
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Why not focussing on a different launcher that does not take half an hour to finally get into the main menu while checking dozens of internet-related thingys when loading, and coming up with an error message when the internet fails?
Thanks in advance 
but I would love to start the Flight Sim as quickly as every other program or game.
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As i wrote earlier, there was this idea that certain ISPs are throttling traffic from certain MS servers, not to get overwhelmed when Win update hits and everyone starts downloading at same-ish times. MS was probably using the same range of servers for Win & MSFS (at least last autumn they did), so the update speeds, the scenery streaming, all of it got slowed down as well thanks to the ISP action.
I’d say that it’s plausible, because after a while of trying various VPNs, i usually found a place where the speed was way higher.
This happened last autumn and this spring. The speeds never got above 10-12Mbps unless i used VPN. With VPN, i could get to 50-70, sometimes 90Mbps.
Lately i had to reinstall MSFS thanks to the Steam “verify” issue. That was about two months ago. So i had to install MSFS from scratch again.
This time, the download speed got up to 100-120Mbit, no VPN. So, something changed. I don’t think that the change happened on the ISP side. Maybe MS started using servers outside the throttled IP range, who knows.
Optional rambling follows.
Btw rambling? Some of these comments, sure, but not the most. But yeah, it can be viewed as such. My first comment in the slow DL speed megathread was mostly just voicing frustration.
I just spent 80 bucks for the “deluxe” version, and then i immediately found out that the download will basically prevent me from using my PC for several days, and that thanks to the idiotic distribution inside the game, the product is basically unrefundable on Steam.
So sure, my comment could be easily called rambling, but that doesn’t mean that the problem doesn’t exist or that i caused it myself.
I really don’t get this dismissive attitude.
These forum threads are full of people describing various issues with MSFS. Some of them are easy fix, some of them aren’t. Some of them are caused by BFU behaviour, some of them aren’t. MSFS has issues on wide variety of setups.
Example (not gamebreaking, but extremely annoying):
I ran into a weird bug, where inverted vertical mouselook didn’t work in the cockpit. I did everything right. I’m used to inverted vertical controls from looong ago. I started on 8bit sim games like Fighter Bomber, Fighter Pilot, F19 or Tomahawk.
So i set that up in MSFS as usual - for both internal and external views. Unfortunately mouselook got inverted only during external camera view. It didn’t work in the cockpit. No inversion. Just to be sure, i watched two how-to videos, but they just showed me what i already did.
I invited few friends to check it out. They confirmed that i set it up exactly the same way as they did.
Everything was as it should be. It didn’t work anyway.
We even looked into the config file, maybe it didn’t save the settings for some reason. But it did.
I even tried a config file that a friend sent me. On his computer, the mouselook was inverted in the cockpit. On my computer - it wasn’t.
The inversion worked during external camera views, but not in the cockpit.
I wanted to try VR anyway, so i just started popping on the headset in the main menu and avoided cockpit mouselook entirely.
After few weeks of short VR flights, i wanted to do a longer IFR without headset on my skull for several hours, so i started a “flat” flight and found out, that the problem is suddenly gone. It just started working without me changing anything related to the controls.
Now was that all my own fault? Did i, three other people and one other person online overlooked something? I guess it’s possible. But i don’t think it’s likely.
And there are tons of issues like that.
It would be very unusual if there weren’t - with the insane scope of the product and the huge variety of setups it’s supposed to work on.
The fact that stuff like that doesn’t happen on your particular set-up doesn’t mean that everyone else is an incapable ■■■■■.
Ah Steam!!! … now I understand.
Good luck.
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Nope, as long it remains on old FSX architecture (the bane of its existence) and server dependency, it shall always remain a work in progress. Doesn’t take a rocket scientist to figure it out.
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I’m re-watching the latest video Dev Q&A video, as well as the Gamescom 2022 interview, and I feel the optimism they have for MSFS.
The description of building the aerodynamics of a helicopter - including the visual representation of airflow as it moves - is impressive. In a previous video they talked about modelling the rolling resistance of plane tires based on temperature. Those are incredible details.
However … there is a growing gap, between these amazing details, and the ubiquitous parts of the simulator that are broken or don’t work. Does the slight difference in rolling resitance of tires matter when the avionics are broken in a stock plane, or when ATC or Ground Services fail, or when it is stuttering or crashing?
Jorg Neumann talks about “balance” between new features and fixing things. And although I really love the new features, I would prefer they establish consistent stability and performance of the stock sim, and bring the neglected features and bug fixes up to a level that stops breaking the experience - and then continue adding new features. Otherwise, for me at least, it will remain out of balance and immersion breaking.
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One word: AITraffic
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Another one: weather.
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I quit Stream after my first game with them. Way too much stuff I couldn’t turn OFF.
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My larger point is, all of it - the stuff that makes it immersive: AI, weather, ATC, traffic. I think each is probably a challenge or headache for them, and they choose to put it all off and focus on new things that have “wow” factor. Problem is, all the “wows” quickly get undermined when you go to fly, by the stuff that is neglected. It sets up a lot of new simmers for some initial disappointment. Time to address the neglected aspects, so that quality is more level and consistent across all of these things.
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When they say they are rebuilding AI, weather, ATC, traffic or even just one part of it from scratch how long do you think this should take, one day? one week? one month? … I suggest maybe you should discuss this with an actual programmer of 3D games and I’m sure you will soon change your mind.
I’ve never heard them say they are rebuilding AI, weather, ATC or traffic. I have heard they have plans for improvements - and that’s great. I’m simply pointing out there is a growing gap between the exquisitley fine details of new, specific things, and the base functionality of the sim that is neglected and never gets addressed. I actually don’t need to discuss with a programmer - I’m a customer, requesting that SU12 be focussed on raising the quality of things that have been neglected, and close the gap for a more consistent experience.
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I believe they will rebuild/upgrade significant part of AI, ATC and flight planner. In Q&A sessions they have specified these are mostly FSX code and needs to be rewritten. But I believe these are in WorkingTitle’s roadmap and not on Asobo themselves. Working title are the experts in this field and that is why they are overhauling the entire flight planning and basic avionics framework. These will probably be the building blocks for better AI traffic and ATC integration. But they have many things to do before they can actually focus on these. And that is probably not going to happen in SU12, we probably will have to wait for working title to release their existing projects in the pipeline (CJ4 refresh, GNS 430/530, G3000/G5000, Cessna Longitude improvements etc) before they can work on these. I would expect sometime in late 2023 at the earliest and possibly well into 2024 realistically before we see some improvements in these areas.
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I hope ai traffic will be optimized…so we shouldn’t have 15 fps less