Please Involve FlightRadar24 as Partner in the Live AI Traffic Feature

At the moment AI live traffic is a bit busted, but I understand other things have taken priority. Yet, I appreciate the fact that Microsoft has committed multiple times to having every aircraft in the sky simulated by AI down the line. So this is a wish for the future more than for “right now” (of course, the earlier the better).

I’ve spent over a year observing AI by now since it has been a major area of interest for me since FS2004. There’s something about bringing airports to life that is both relaxing and exciting.

Preamble aside, I’ve come to realize that Microsoft’s promise simply can’t be achieved with the current partner (Flightaware) alone.

We all know that Asobo has been contending with flights that often don’t appear because of lack of data like altitude and more. They’ve made attempts to interpolate it, but it’s still a problem area.

Unfortunately, the problem with Flightaware is deeper.

They have entire fleets of many airlines completely wrong, listing the wrong variants of an aircraft. For instance, ANA’s DH8Ds are wrongly identified in as DH8Bs

Another issue is that many fleets don’t have the specific variants. For example, most flights by Solaseed Air are marked as being flown by generic “737” while everyone able to use Google knows that the airline only has B738s.

Other fleets that have a sizable number of NEO A320s and A321s simply ignore their existence, marking them all as CEOs.

This is not nitpicking. Issues like these are absolutely pervasive in many areas of the world, across many airlines, and would absolutely wreak havoc on any attempt to correctly portray air traffic once Microsoft implements correct models and liveries.

Sticking to the example above, the aircraft labeled as “737” (or other generic variants like 787 and more) would cause the simulator not to know what model to spawn. Wrong variants would confuse it by trying to associate the wrong model with a texture that does not exist.

The worst issue is that from my observation Flightaware does not act on reports of bad data or does so in a direly insufficient way. I’ve reported many, many issues like the above over several months, and none, none has been fixed.

Yet, there’s more that would cause problems in the correct portrayal of worldwide traffic, and it’s the fact that Flightaware does not provide (at least to free account) tail registration numbers.

This means that simulating all those spiffy special liveries correctly would be impossible. An additional problem is that the simulator would have no way to distinguish between Pax and Freight versions of the same aircraft when they operate under the same airline and ICAO/IATA code, which is fairly common with several airlines.

My conclusions after months of observation is that Flightaware alone is simply not sufficient to get a precise picture of worldwide traffic, and as such, it’s not suitable for the needs of Live Traffic of Microsoft Flight Simulator. It’s not suitable now, and it’ll be even less suitable when Microsoft tries to keep its promise to implement its own models and liveries.

I’ve also observed Flightaware’s main competitor, FlightRadar 24, and I have seen that (while not 100% perfect), it’s much, much more complete and precise in the data it provides.

99% of fleets are correctly labeled with the correct types, and registration numbers are provided to all users, permitting a much more granular and specific implementation of air traffic.

On top of this, one of the major weaknesses of the current live traffic in Microsoft Flight Simulator is that it does not even try to simulate the aircraft on the ground at each airport. They spawn completely at random, with the result that you’ll find Easyjets in Hong Kong and so forth. This is likely due to the fact that Flightaware provides no such data at all.

FlightRadar 24 provides comprehensive and updated lists of aircraft on the ground at each airport, which would be invaluable to Microsoft Flight Simulator. While it’s true that the detailed list is available only to Silver members, I would be surprised if Microsoft couldn’t manage to get FR24 to provide it to the simulator.

This means that a partnership with FlightRadar24 would bring much more detailed, correct, complete, and simply higher quality data for aircraft on the air, and potentially data on the ground that is now completely missing.

This is not to say that Microsoft should completely do away with the partnership with Flightaware (albeit if they had to choose between the two for any reason, I’d advise moving to FR24).

The best option would be using data from BOTH services and interporlate it, so that when one service fails, the other can integrate what is missing.

This would result into basically every flight correctly showcased and simulated in Microsoft Flight Simulator, both in the air and on the ground, which is exactly what AI live traffic should do.

Not only it’d benefit the base simulator, but it’d also provide third-party AI developers with a much more solid base to work with.

Thanks for your attention. :hugs:

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I’ve been using this app while at Manchester airport, live landing traffic is approximately 5 minutes behind the app which for me is ok. I’ve never seen a single aircraft take off in the sim.

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this would be really good. Voted!

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I’ll vote to support this, but will not be holding my breath :neutral_face:

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This may be what you’re looking for, looks very promising!

https://fselite.net/video/fsltl-winter-2021-official-trailer/

I’ve been helping test that for the past several months, so I’m intimately familiar with it. Unfortunately, while it’s great, it is not ultimately what I am looking for.

Microsoft wants to ultimately create its own full-fledged live traffic solution, so what I’m looking for is Microsoft having the best data source possible natively. FSLTL’s injector is a great workaround that will suffice for the time being, but it’ll never be as effective as a native solution which is part of the base simulator.

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Great job, excellent write-up. Excellent!

I sure hope your suggestion will be acted upon. Clearly, you’ve detailed the need.

We haven’t heard a thing from the Devs as of yet, but the frequent downtime of Live Traffic is very concerning. From the users point of view, it is unknown if part of the problem (or all of it) is at the source of the data stream, FlightAware. Live Traffic functionality has been very intermittent/inconsistent. I would hope that the Devs take this into account when looking at the overall solution.

Thank you for your write-up!

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Always glad to be of service.

My hypothesis at the moment is that the developers have kind of set traffic aside for when they can tackle it full force, having had bigger fish to fry. I may be wrong, but that’s my impression.

Hopefully, they’ll have good news in the new year. :grinning_face:

Thank you for your excellent post. Voted!

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Thank you :smiley:

A whole lot better than anything else currently in the market, actually (and a temporary issue doesn’t change that at all) but this is about traffic, not weather, so we should likely stick to the topic. There are plenty of threads about that if you want to discuss it. I don’t think I need to link them.

No. They can’t do “everything” but they have the resources and manpower to do a lot, also striking official partnerships that third parties likely don’t have the ability to do, on top of direct access to the game’s code, so I’m definitely holding them to the promises they have already made.

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From my very Novice & naive point of view, even if access could be got to get all the current world real time traffic, can MSFS even handle that traffic, even in a useful small radius around a user aircraft, when users are being advised to turn all AI traffic OFF, to avoid CTDs

And that does not even start to take in account Nation Security, of the ban by some counties on the distribution of flight details over their countries.

As someone already linked above, there already are third-party solutions that use FR24, so yes. The simulator can definitely handle them, even in areas that are crazy busy like around KJFK or KLAX.

It’s not perfect, but its imperfection isn’t in the number or density of flights visualized, but in the fact that it has to use workarounds, so it’s less effective than what a native solution would be, resulting in a representation of live traffic that’s less representative than someone with direct access to the code would achieve.

If you’re worried about CTDs (which aren’t really an issue with the solution linked above in my experience), a native solution would be a lot more efficient hardware-wise. Microsoft has the resources to create models and textures that use decals in much larger number than an independent developer with limited manpower.

Those can easily achieve visual clarity equivalent to 4K textures with a much, much smaller memory footprint, so if third parties can already display FR24’s flights with 4k textures without destroying performance, Microsoft can do even better, saving resources for everyone.

Mind you, the whole performance issue can (and should) easily be solved with a simple slider. Those who don’t have the hardware to display ALL the traffic could simply be enabled by a setting to visualize a percentage of it.

Mind you, this doesn’t mean that those working on AI nowadays would all go the way of the dodo, and wouldn’t have anything to do. While I’m confident Microsoft will manage to get official licenses from a large number of airlines and manufacturers, I doubt they’ll be able to involve all.

That’s exactly why having a solid base working with the best data is important. Then AI devs can focus on integrating the default solution with the models and liveries that are missing, instead of having to use their resources, time (and a LOT of patience) to basically reinvent the wheel and achieve basic functionality.

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Thanks for that explanation.. sound most encouraging :+1:

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Nice idea but on the understanding that FR24 isn’t the sole supplier of AI data. There are still areas of the World (e.g. parts of Africa and South America) where its coverage isn’t great and its lists of aircraft on the ground aren’t always reliable either. That’s not to say that it doesn’t provide an excellent service but it’s not foolproof.

As for AI traffic, there are some types that FR24 won’t show so again, it would need to be supplemented by other AI aircraft.

Still a great idea, in my view, but as long as its limitations are taken into account.

No. You’re indeed correct. The perfect provider of data does not exist, which is why having two would help.

That being said, IF they had to choose between them for whatever reason, I’d definitely go with FR24 not only for the quality and granularity of the data (which from my observation is much superior overall) but also due to the fact that they’re much more active in improving and updating it.

Of course, the hope is that they wouldn’t need to choose. Having all eggs in one basket is sub-optimal to begin with.

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Very interesting. FLTL will have also an “Offline” mode? I better try to explain with an example: I’m based in europe, it’s morning but I would like to fly from N.Y. where it’s night and obviously at that time FR24 will display a lot less traffic than the time I’m aiming to fly. So in that case an offline mode based on schedule (as AIG should be based) will be useful, don’t you believe it?

This thoroughly intrigues me, FR24 has been building its services for years and years, they have a wealth of knowledge of aircraft positions and extrapolating this data, Asobo may find it beneficial to tap into some of that knowledge. I’ll vote

This is true to a degree, a lot of sceduled flights in FR24 are wrong because of errors in filing, cargo being a huge example of this

I’m a cargo guy :upside_down_face: so I’m particularly interested to see a well reproducing cargo ramp and AIG at the moment doing very well

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