Hello fellow fans of a rotary winged flying machines,
yesterday was a long anticipated day for all of us, as, after more than two years of waiting, we finally received the native helicopter support for this great sim. I have awaited this more than I would wait for Christmas presents when I was a kid; however, just like then, there are cases when, after finally unpacking your present, you find your new toy not as good as expected from the commercial.
I do not want to start complaining here, because it is still absolutely awesome to have this new feature. Athough, the current implementation leaves a lot to be desired, hopefully, with time and our feedback this gem could be perfected to the best and definitely the most scenic helicopter sim out there.
I am going to point out the 3 key areas which I find lacking at the moment and would like the rest of you sharing your expereinces and thoughts on these issues as well as anything else you might add:
The flight model is too smooth. All helicopters vibrate (some more some less depending on the model and how good the maintenance personel is) and once airborne they feel slightly jittery. At the moment in this sim both helis feel somehow disconnected from the rotating masses and the turbulent air stream they create. This is a big immersion killer in VR and is especialy apparent during the translational lift phase when the difference in induced flow between the front and rear of the rotor disc makes any helicopter vibrate significantly with noticeable change in sound. Vibrations are also a tell tale sign of an imminent vortex ring, which is also another area lacking refinement.
Vortex ring state. Despite my best efforts I was unable to induce a proper main rotor vortex ring state on any of the two native helis. Even sink rates of up to 2000 fpm with no forward airspeed can be easily stopped with a handfull of collective, which is completelly wrong. At least one can induce the loss of tail rotor effectiveness on a Bell 407 when no amount of pedal movement can save you from a fatal spin. Talking about the pedals:
Anti torque pedal trim and force trim in general. Maybe itâs just me, but I have not found a way to trim the pedals and this gets really annoying really fast. The cyclic trim is ok via the hat switch; however, I am missing the one button press and release force trim system, which I find the best for spring loaded joysticks and pedals.
Writing this post Iâve realised that I havenât thoroughly tested the flight model for such effects as retreating blade stall upon reaching Vne etc. So if anyone has anything to add or comment I would like to hear your opinions. I basically listed the set of features which that other helicopter sim DCS does pretty well, so I donât see any reason why MSFS couldnât implement them too.
Yes, definitely a good start! I would also love to see it perfected. Even the Dodosim B206 on FSX/P3D had retreating blade stall, VRS, etc. and it was one of the favorites for me a long time ago. Modern helos in sims with SAS often feel somewhat disconnected from the physics and so the simpler helos can give more interesting flying experience, if done correctly. Pilots are supposed to stay well within the safety margins, so it could be argued that simulating extreme situations is not that important. Then again, this is a sim where I can safely try things only madman would try in real life, so of course I want to do exactly that I just need to have the physics consistent and some hints (vibration, noise) to help me judge how close to the edge I am.
This could have been tested in SU11 beta testing. This more than likely wonât be fixed until SU12 or later. This was just to get the helicopters added to the simulater.
Just to make sure @Vendigrothian1: Have you turned off all the assistance options for helicopters which were introduced with SU11? They are turned on by default. (Options->Assistance Options-> Piloting). Cheers.
I sure have, as with them turned on helicopters fly more like that velocopter thing, rather than an actual heli. Takes care of that pesky pedal trimming problem though, as you donât need to push pedals anymore
Did a test of significantly exceeding Vne - nothing; however, since even DCS alows Mi-8 to fly at 300 kph I suppose this is the least of priorities on the sim developer listâŠ
I was disappointed because the specifically mentioned VRS in their promo video a week ago.
Seems more like a rocket plane than a helicopter. Collective is simply âupward thrustâ apparently. Some ground effect, but other than that it seems very basic at the moment.
Obviously Iâve turned off the assists for cyclic and pedals.
Maybe thereâs some secret realism setting somewhere that I havenât found?
I mean, I tested Vne on the Cabri by diving from 6000 feet. Got about 170 knots according to external camera HUD. No ill effects. Only an excessive pitch up as speed got higher, but no retreating wing stall.
For vortex ring state, I tried the helipad in Kuala Lumpur which is on a tall building. Hovered out over the side, cut collective and let myself fall vertically along the wall. There was no shaking or vibration, and no problem stopping the descent by simply adding collective again.
VRS is there to some extent. You can see it by getting into hover, lowering collective to descend at steps of 100ft/min, you notice how going past -500ft/min will get it do descent even faster requiring a lot more collective to hold. The thing is, there shouldnât be enough collective and power in the world to hold in that situation.
So my guess is, it is being modeled, just in a very toned down way.
Another thing that is bodering me and might be contributing for the lack of VRS is the fact that the engine seems magical. No matter how drastic is a change in collective or a maneuver, the engine just take it like a champ and keeps rotation almost static (you need to try hard to even bring it into yellow zone). So it gets easy to recover from a -2000ft/min+ VRS when you have basically infinite power.
Is there translational lift and ground effect? Iâm not at home so I canât try the new helis yet, but watching videos I canât see any torque changes when the Bell 407 accelerates or enters the ground effect.
DCS has a very punitive VRS model, as soon as you cross the threshold into âmaybe VRSâ territory, youâre already falling out the sky, but FS seems to have gone the other direction. And as another poster mentioned, these are the smoothest helicopters in the world. The ones Iâve flown in IRL really drive home what ârotating massâ means Basically always feeling vibration, and getting the sound and shakes of TFE and ETL transitions, which DCS does very well - not sure Iâm getting the terminology right, but I remember them from flying in helicopters IRL. As a fixed wing pilot IRL, helicopters are VERY âmechanicalâ feeling, sitting in them is always a reminder of the âa collection of spare parts, rotating around an oil leak, waiting for metal fatigue to set inâ feeling, which at the moment, FS is not giving me.
Also I personally miss the environmental effects a lot, like dust and grass movement. this was completely disregarded, which is a pity, because observing the ground during landing is absolutely crucial in helis
pls be kind to not compare videos from youtube because of easy reason - no exact info about realism set. From my now experience with all settings set to max realism, I need simply coordinate my flight very precisely in case of hovering or lift/off and landing, heli is unstable as is expected. Forward flight is also interesting because in case of lowering cyclic, heli lower its nose and also turning right what I see also ok. On other side, there are also other control settings (never used till this time) and are visible under Customization, to each aircraft selected (where are also Liveries, ⊠options). I give you to attention also one thing, pls look at collective which moves not exactly same speed as your control, it simply does smooth effect. I donât know but I expect maybe not implemented this effect.
Keep in mind that just because something is hard, like the DCS Huey, doesnât automatically make it correct. Thatâs a misconception, like the fans of the old school racing game, Grand Prix Legends, used to perpetuate, to justify the insanely hard driving physics. If helos were as overstated as they are in DCS World, and X-Plane, they would be raining from the skies IRL.
We need more IRL heli pilots to comment - also, what Aerofly FS2 used to do is have two modes - easy/hard. Itâs really nice for those who donât have the reflexes yet to be able to enjoy the MSFS scenery down low and also to be able to start to learn the reflexes and then change to âhardâ ( âfully realisticâ ) mode as they get used to the heli controls. The freeware H135 from Hype has three modes (Xbox, Basic, Advanced) which are selectable from the front panel as well as a nice Autopilot that lets you relax and just enjoy the scenery. I enjoy the DCS Huey with itâs âtouchyâ modes of operation where I really have to consider descent as dangerous. VRS has been a problem for many Osprey drivers IRL as well.
Iâm well aware that âbeing hardâ doesnât necessarily make it right. I am also familiar with what helicopter pilots have said with regard to the realism of the DCS Huey. Which makes me think that (allowing for differences between individual types) the modelling in DCS is probably closer to reality.
Iâd agree that helis arenât perfect, but I think itâs an encouraging start and Asobo have a pretty good record for improving the sim. I donât mind them getting the ânormalâ flight characteristics right first then build on the edge cases like VRS and RBS down the line.
I just need to have the physics consistent and some hints (vibration, noise) to help me judge how close to the edge I am.