PMDG 737 Discussion (PC Version) (Part 1)

[GamingCat2130]

Wonderful thank you very much! That was the problem!

All problems solved now now the tiller is connected to the yaw-axis of the X52 Professional HOTAS that also presses in the right or left rudder panel.

By the way I have tested the single engine behaviour of the Boeing 737 a little bit, because in a YouTube Video a real Airbus pilot mentioned a bad single engine flight characteristics of the Fenix Airbus. (Way too much power necessary to keep her flying, while in real-life an ETOPS-jet flies with one engine almost as good as with two).

With 1900 feet sinkrate an flaps full out and gear out 46% N1 power is necessary to fly with 156 knots:

When flying without flaps or gear out 79% N1 is necessary to keep 300 knots air speed:

But she behaves a little bit stubborn and the autopilot sometimes don´t work when one engine is shut off. During this flight the autopilot was functional.
Auto-thrust is not functional at all with single engine flight.

The windmilling of the shut-off engine is rather interesting. When flying with very high speed (~300kn) N2 is windmilling with 50%.

The highest speed with single engine is 369 knots true air speed (331 knots IAS) which brings a windmilling of N2 to 57% and N1 to 18%:

[RarefiedDrop499]

I cant seem to get my xbox controller to interface with the rudder properly…it’s weird; along the rudder travel, sometimes it goes to zero, then back again as I increase the rudder…it’s fidgety; why?

[GoUp1994]

How can I increase the simulation rate in pmdg?

Thanks

[FormerSnail5736]

Ok, it’s gonna be a long post.

I think you’re a bit confused there with what ETOPS means. The flight characteristics of an ETOPS airplane are identical to a non-etops airplane. Both fly identically on one engine. Most of the ETOPS certification lies in aspects that have nothing to do with the airplane.

For an airline to be able to fly ETOPS, not only the airplane needs to be ETOPS, but also the airline itself, the crew, the operations manual, the training program and many other aspects of the whole operation. ETOPS is basically 95% paperwork. If an airline without ETOPS certification buys a A350, they still cannot plot their routes according to ETOPS. For example, some years ago AirFrance lost the ETOPS180 certif and had to downgrade to ETOPS120 on the 777. The airplane didn’t change. SriLankan Airlines completely lost ETOPS on their a320/321 NEOS. The airplanes didn’t change.

Non-etops only means that the routes must be plotted within the “diversion distance” from adequate aerodromes. The “diversion distance” for non-ETOPS routes is 1 hour at the OEI speed in still air (one engine inoperative). On the 737-800 this distance is 427nm and on the 737-700 it’s 416nm (It doesn’t matter if it’s over the ocean or over Africa).

Within one airplane type, for example the 737, the difference between ETOPS and Non-ETOPS versions is usually about having and extra generator (like the HDG on the 757) or an extra cargo extinguisher bottle (Like on the 737). Since the 737 only has 2 main generators, for ETOPS operation the APU has to be switched on before entering an ETOPS segment (And carry the fuel required for this).

Get yourself a 737 QRH (google) and you’ll find the “engine fire or engine severe damage or separation” and the “engine failure or shutdown” checklists. These checklists will direct you to the “one engine inoperative landing” checklist. There you will find that single engine approaches on the 737 are done with flaps 15 (F1 for go arounds). You will also find that autothrottle cannot be used with one engine inoperative and that the airplane will not be capable of dual channel approaches (no autoland). Also, if you lose one engine in the terminal area, you would never fly 300 knots. Your goal is to stay within the MSA. You’d be flying holding speeds while you read checklists and prepare to land. If you lose one engine in cruise, you would be using the driftdown tables to determine the altitude and the speeds that you need to fly to reach a suitable airport.

Don’t try to reinvent the way the airplane is flown. We don’t wing it. It’s all written. Shut down one engine and trim the rudder. Establish the airplane in a hold (Watch your airspeed. Manual thrust), and read the QRH SLOWLY.

Here’s a QRH for you. Make sure you read the checklist instructions on page 783. It wouldn’t be a bad idea to be able to use this PDF inside MSFS with some PDF reader plugin that I’m sure exists somewhere. Isn’t PMDG the definition of “study airplane”…
https://aviaforum.ams3.cdn.digitaloceanspaces.com/data/attachment-files/2013/11/616397_c032fd6493cfbdc1527928147668092a.pdf

[AlpineB4652]

So I’m maybe not the best to answer this - I only use my controller to fly the drone camera and now as my tiller axis in the 737.

That said, I know many users have reported problems with the rudder recentering or not responding - I had it happen to me with my pedals a few times. You might be experiencing this bug, or your controls need better calibration.

Search the forums and you will see some big threads. I definitely suggest learning how to customise you axes via the sensitivity settings. Using curves, reactivity etc can massively improve the feel of any device. Mark on FlightSimHanger (YouTube) has an excellent video explaining exactly what each setting does. I would say it’s the single most useful YouTube on MSFS ive seen.

[FormerSnail5736]

It was already answered. He was using Prop1 Pitch axis for the Tiller axis. It’s not a bug. It’s a feature.

[danzio56]

@RarefiedDrop499

I cant seem to get my xbox controller to interface with the rudder properly…it’s weird; along the rudder travel, sometimes it goes to zero, then back again as I increase the rudder…it’s fidgety; why?

Rudder does not work properly with XBox controller due to a single axis programmed in the 737 and controller is trying to send signals on 2 axis. They are supposedly working on a fix but who knows when.

[MetalPlains3097]

@FormerSnail5736

Ok, it’s gonna be a long post.

The longer the better from you, thank you so much for your hugely informative posts. People like you help to add so much more enjoyment to flight simming for people like me.

[Joe8617]

100% agreed @MetalPlains3097

Thank you @FormerSnail5736. All of your posts and insights are very much appreciated. Thank you for taking the time to post.

-Joe

[KDUBU]

Cheers Mate. I will give that a go and see if it helps. Thanks for the advice

[KDUBU]

So did you disengage the Prop 1 Axis and just leave it on rudder axis only?

[JWATTS0275]

On the FMC you go into FS Actions, options for AUTO CRUISE

Auto time compression on/off

Gives you Auto time compression x2 x4 x8 x16

I think from memory

[GamingCat2130]

@FormerSnail5736

ETOPS is basically 95% paperwork. If an airline without ETOPS certification buys a A350, they still cannot plot their routes according to ETOPS. For example, some years ago AirFrance lost the ETOPS180 certif and had to downgrade to ETOPS120 on the 777. The airplane didn’t change. SriLankan Airlines completely lost ETOPS on their a320/321 NEOS. The airplanes didn’t change.

Hm I always thought ETOPS is a certification for special airplanes with rather powerful turbines that are capable of complete normal flying, and even climbing without any problems with single-engine operation.
While some twin-prop airplanes cannot do that (and sometimes can barely climb 200ft/min with moderate payload with one engine off) ETOPS aircraft have almost no limitations with one engine out, and can fly with one or two engines with only a little difference in airspeed and flight characteristics.

[Tempocalypse]

ETOPS

" ETOPS approval is a two-step process. First, the airframe and engine combination must satisfy the basic ETOPS requirements during its type certification. This is called “ETOPS type approval”. Such tests may include shutting down an engine and flying the remaining engine during the complete diversion time. Often such tests are performed in the middle of the ocean. It must be demonstrated that, during the diversion flight, the flight crew is not unduly burdened by extra workload due to the lost engine and that the probability of the remaining engine failing is extremely remote. For example, if an aircraft is rated for ETOPS-180, it means that it is able to fly with full load and just one engine for three hours.

Second, an operator who conducts ETOPS flights must satisfy their own country’s aviation regulators about their ability to conduct ETOPS flights. This is called “ETOPS operational certification” and involves compliance with additional special engineering and flight crew procedures in addition to the normal engineering and flight procedures. Pilots and engineering staff must be qualified and trained for ETOPS. An airline with extensive experience operating long distance flights may be awarded ETOPS operational approval immediately, while others may need to demonstrate ability through a series of ETOPS proving flights."

ie an ETOPS rated aircraft of course is capable of almost normal flying with a single engine but that is not the main point.

[FormerSnail5736]

The 737-NG is an ETOPS airplane, provided it has the ETOPS version of the cargo hold fire suppression system with two extinguisher bottles instead of one. The airline I fly for does not have ETOPS certification, yet at least 1/3 of our fleet has the ETOPS cargo fire system. We just don’t need ETOPS approval because we’re always at less than 1h flying at the OEI speed from any proper airport. FlyDubai has ETOPS certification. Their airplane is almost identical but they need ETOPS120. They probably need it to fly straight lines to south of India and Thailand. The main difference you will find in the airplane side is the maintenance program. For example it could be that a non-etops operator has to change the cockpit windows every 5000h while the ETOPS operator must change them every 4000h.

I know most multi-engine prop airplanes suck and can’t fly level on one engine, let alone climb. I did fly a DA-42 that could fly straight and level on a normal day. I think on a very cold day it could climb. Airliners are a different thing. An airliner has to be able to not only fly level on one engine, but also provide a 2.4% climb gradient on the take off configuration during the second segment of a take off (from wheels up until the MFRA). This is the segment where the certification requires the most power from an airplane.

On the 737, next time you’re on the cruise, check out this CDU page. Activating the ENG OUT function doesn’t do anything. It only shows information to the pilot. For a given weight, it’ll show you what level could the airplane maintain after losing an engine in flight.

So if you lose an engine in flight, the first thing you’d do is disengage the autothrottle and set MCT (maximum continuous thrust). Then you would select the speed shown on the CDU ENG OUT page. Once the airplane has decelerated to that speed (happens very slowly), you would start a descent in LVL CHG. While that happens you would do the memory items if the type of engine failure had memory items. You would talk to ATC as well. When you start the descent, you would start reading checklists and evaluate the situation while pointing the nose to a good airport. The airplane will level off on speed at an altitude slightly higher than the initially shown on the ENG OUT page (since after the descent on MCT the airplane will be slightly lighter). With one engine in MCT, the descent will be very shallow.

In this case we were cruising at FL350 when the right engine was shut down. We went to the CRZ ENG OUT information page and selected the right engine out. It showed us a target FL230 and 235kts. So Autothrottle off, set MCT on the good engine and let the airplane slow down. When it reaches 235kts, we select FL230 on the MCP and hit LVL CHG. Then we read our QRH. The airplane will be able to maintain FL230 at least while flying to the diversion aerodrome. It will fly straight and level at this altitude until fuel runs out.

[GamingCat2130]

@Tempocalypse

Often such tests are performed in the middle of the ocean. It must be demonstrated that, during the diversion flight, the flight crew is not unduly burdened by extra workload due to the lost engine and that the probability of the remaining engine failing is extremely remote.

Oooh wow! Shutting down one engine in the middle of the ocean - I wonder who dares to do so on a voluntary base. It´s like signing a death pact together with the airplane if anything goes wrong with the still running engine.
These ETOPS tests can be done with safe ground under the airplane with way less stress and risk of test-pilots dying.

[Jettalost]

After the update, Engine 1 is running on start-up and cannot be shut down. Regardless of what panel state I am loading. Wonder if any y’all are having a similar issue?

[ThreeGuide4354]

Anyone using a Keyboard binding to successfully operate Reverse Thrust, (RT)?
(Press F1 to normalize the Thrust)
I had press F2 to activate RT working ok then I noticed only engine was entering RT, & now have lost it on both.
Wondering if somewhere in the MCDU Aircraft/Equipment 15 pages of settings I have made a wrong choice.
TG

[DrVenkman3876]

@ThreeGuide4354

Wondering if somewhere in the MCDU Aircraft/Equipment 15 pages of settings I have made a wrong choice.

The only thing I can think of in the FMC options would be something related to the Autothrust Override settings maybe. I have mine set to NEVER and don’t have any issues with Reverse Thrust.

Having said that, it would not hurt to go into the sim’s Controls option and check to be 100% sure you don’t have a conflict or didn’t accidentally un-set your control binding.

[FormerSnail5736]

But if you do that then you can’t move the thrust levers when in HOLD. Takes away the fun of controlling the vertical speed with the thrust levers when flying VNAV SPD or LVL CHG.

To prevent the reversers from not deploying make sure your thrust levers have some dead zone so they command full idle when physically at the bottom of the motion range.