it’s here. But it’s gonna make your eyes bleed…
@BernhardBerger, I think I know how to properly use WMR (via the Mixed Reality Portal) with FS2020, but try as I might, I haven’t been able to figure out how to use the SteamVR option. When I try to start MSFS from the SteamVR “waiting room”, nothing happens except the app starts running, but seems inaccessible from within Steam.
I’m sure these are just the growing pains of a noob (that would be ME), but can you help a stupid noob out? I’m not even sure I completely understand what you guys are even saying with all this stuff. Like “ReVive”. No clue even what that is, much less how it’s applicable to VR with MSFS.
Sorry for a little off topic. Does the WMR software have to run/startup when SteamVR is the active OXRuntime?
To follow up: it seems to be a SteamVR problem on my side, unrelated to the G2 or WMR on a few games. iRacing and other sims run just fine.
@JALxml (and others)
NB: please makes sure to view the pictures at their full res (100% zoom).
I’ve tried to take through the lens photos showing up what I see. It is very hard to get exactly the same because the camera lens is not the same as my eyes, therefore, I’ve sometime post-process a little the photos to compensate and otherwise I’ll pinpoint the specific pixels to look at in the photos.
The problem so far
What I see in the G2:
When I place the headset in such a way there is no chromatic aberration on white lines and text, it appears blurry like in this picture.
NB: just look at the upper half of the following picture, starting at the “The Blu” icon at the bottom, ignore everything below it because there is too much CA.
What I see with +1 correction glasses
When I wear glasses I can see much clearer in the center (slightly more than the picture below) and the disk of clarity in the center is wider.
NB: the photo is showing some CA but there is nearly none with the glasses, except to the edges due to the glasses themselves.
Changing the point of view
When I wear the G2 headset in a position where my eyes are off center, slightly above or below, I can see clear sharp text but with chromatic aberration like this.
NB: just look at the “Quality of your visuals” text.
I believe in positioning my eyes above, I can see with a different focal distance due to the shape of the lens putting my eyes farther from its surface. It also requires looking “slanted” which I’ll try to illustrate below.
/ / < --|------------------------------------- A \ \
/ < --/....._______ | `````--------......._____ \ ```` ------ A \
This is why I get maybe sharper text because it changes focal distance, but conversely I also get chromatic aberration because it is not calibrated for off-center viewing.
So I can either see no-CA but blurry unless I add +1 correction, or I can see sharper but with CA without +1 correction.
This is where the undocumented Dwm registry keys are helping:
NB: they are all REG_DWORD
If I set ColorDistortion to 1 (enable) and I change the scaling of blue to 0.995 (value = 995) and scaling of red to 1.005 (value = 1005) I can get this:
NB: this corrects the red blue fringes from the shot above but in the headset it is really sharper than this.
With this I’ve been able to fly for 1H+ without eye strain and if I forcefully relax my eyes it is slightly but only slightly becoming blurry, which is what I’d expect. However the disk of clarity is maybe a little smaller than when wearing +1 glasses,
Conclusions so far
If I wear the headset so that the anti-CA filter is properly aligning the RGB places producing white lines without fringes, the text is blurry. If I wear the headset offset from center so that text is sharper I get CA fringes. If I adjust the R and B scaling I can compensate the fringes mostly alright. In the 1st case wearing +1 glasses makes the image as clear as the 2nd case with RB adjustment (nearly).
This poses a few questions:
- do you see the same R/B fringes when it is sharp with your G2?
- If you do see the fringes and reposition the headset vertically until they are no longer visible, is the text becoming blurrier?
- Is there any other G2 user here which experience matches what I’m reporting here?
I don’t notice any chromatic aberration effect but I basically got the G2 because of the following YouTube video (I don’t have a Quest or an Index - G2 my first ever VR headset).
I realized that VR resolution was going to be a step down and the resolution depicted in the YouTube review seemed good enough to me and I’d say I basically get the resolution shown with your recommended MSFS 2020 graphics settings. (My monitor can only do 60 Hz so I think reprojection does help give me a smoother video experience - I have the monitor set at “90 Hz” in the Windows Mixed Reality, Headset Display Settings with Reprojection turned on in OpenXR settings).
I’d say the picture on the far right accurately represents what I see of my instruments panels with the G2 and just as the thumbnail shows, it’s a pure white to me. Have you had cataract surgery yet? Some intraocular lenses (IOL’s) inserted to replace the clouded normal human lens removed can cause chromatic aberration and the normal human lens has some chromatic aberration (see 2nd video link info). I wonder if some people have more chromatic aberration than others in their normal human lenses and it shows up more readily for some reason when wearing a VR headset?
This is why you will sometimes see people in highly visually demanding sports wearing yellow-tinted glasses. The yellow lenses block the blue light so there is no chromatic aberration.
(there may be far better Internet sources - I just randomly picked this one)
Edit_Update: I didn’t hunt too hard for the reference below but here’s a paper that claims in a small limited group of subjects there was low variability in the actual physical amount of chromatic aberration physically detected via optics but more variability between subjects due to “psychophysical” reasons - something about the plane of least chromatic aberration is not the plane of best physical image focus for some folks - which sounds somewhat akin to the problem that you have described for yourself - have no idea how reliable the study is, etc.
Further Update: Maybe any difference you perceive between headsets is just based on their materials vs. point of focus, varying the relative point of least chromatic aberration vs. best point of focus between headsets?
Thank you for the additional details and articles, I never thought about our eye CA either but now it might explain me better why I do perceive red and blue bars drawn on a black background as if they were at difference depth. Now this LCA aspect could be an explanation I see red/blue fringes in the G2 when wearing it above/below the center line/sweet spot, and why I see the image blurrier when I look in the center. However I’d suspect I would have a similar effect with any headset, but I don’t with the Valve Index. Actually the Index allows a wider range of positions without any difference regarding CA and sharpness which is great (they use dual elements lenses). My G2 is not which would indicate it has a defect.
So if I get it correctly, in your G2 you can see clear text closer to the 2nd image (in “what I see +1 correction glasses”) than in the 1st image, and it appears like in the “Partial Solution” screenshot (white on black), and not like in the “Changing the point of view” screenshot (white on black with red/blue fringes). Did I understand it right?
Would you mind if this is correct, trying to lower or raise ever so slightly the G2 and see whether you can notice red/blue fringes appearing in this case?
Otherwise, if you do see red/blue fringes already, would you mind trying lowering or raising the G2 up to the point both disappear when looking at anything white over background in the middle (like text preferably), and when it occurs, is the text then becoming less sharp for you?
If I tilt the heasdset to a rather extreme angle, I perceive the blue fringes you described. It’s slight but definitely present. If I wear it normally, it’s all white, as described by JALxml.
Another thing though, not sure if this is related, but the screen of GPS in the cessna172 classic does appear to me in 3D, magenta lines and blue line do not appear to be on the same plan, if that make sense.
I would say the text in the floating Windows Mixed-Reality settings window in the post here: PSA: Reverb G2 small sweet spots, observations and solutions - #79 by JALxml is much closer to the clarity of what I see than either of the two images that you’re asking me to compare in your post here: PSA: Reverb G2 small sweet spots, observations and solutions - #108 by CptLucky8. The text in both images included in your post is very, very blurry compared to what I see and the top rightmost image of the YouTube video preview PSA: Reverb G2 small sweet spots, observations and solutions - #109 by JALxml is closest to what I see when using MSFS.
I don’t notice any striking discolorations but later today (1/25/21), I’ll try moving my G2 headset around and see if I can induce any chromatic aberration and let you know.
I will return my G2 and get a Quest2. For me the sweet spot is just too small, to be acceptable. Secondly, the GPU power needed for the native resolution will be the the rtx40XX ot rtx50XX series. Until then, they will have an G2 with a better sweet spot on the market I guess.
I confirm this observation of GPS in “steam gauges” C172 and Reverb G2.
I should have clarified the point you’re raising about the white text in my screenshots appearing fuzzy and this is just due to the way I took the photo and unfortunately distracting from the points I wanted to highlight. For this reason I’ll try differently using a screenshot of the DCS altimeter seen in the through-the-lens video.
This is what I see in the G2:
1. Blurry + No CA
When I align the eyes in the sweet spot:
NB: It is blurry because I can’t focus on the display distance and only if I force my eye to see closer it is becoming sharper, but there is no or minimal CA visible.
2. Sharp + No CA
When I use +1 correction glasses:
NB: It is just what I need to add in order to be able to focus on the gauge without effort on the eyes, whereas I normally need +2.5 reading glasses.
3. Sharp + CA
When I look from slightly above or below the sweet spot (needed for point 4.):
NB: It is sharp but with chromatic aberrations. These CA are due to not being aligned to the lens center and looking to the gauge in a slanted way (see my attempt to picture the “slanted” way above), that is I’m for example looking at the gauge with my eye above the center of the lens, with the gauge center below the lens center. However in looking this way the gauge is sharp and I suspect it is because with the eye at this position against the lens, I’m seeing the image at a difference focal length.
4. Sharp + No CA
When I look from slightly above or below the sweet spot with distortion correction using the registry keys:
NB: The registry keys are distorting the red and blue channels separately in order to make them join together with the green channel, eliminating the fringes and producing white lines again. These are undocumented Dwm registry keys (
ColorDistortion to 1 (enable) and I change Blue value to 0.995 (
ColorDistortionB: 995) and Red value to 1.005 (
ColorDistortionB: 1005) for my G2 in order to transform image 3 with the fringes to 4 without.
NB: Any change is immediately effective when the presence sensor activates. In other words: remove headset, edit registry values, put the headset back, see the results!
Now we need someone to make a personal eye test app that can adjust these hidden registry values on a custom basis.
Look, so far I’m a fan of the G2, and while I’m aware that some people don’t like the sweet spot, this being my very first VR headset, I didn’t (and don’t) know what to expect, or what’s acceptable and what’s not. I probably am going to get one of those face mask mods to get it a bit closer to my face, but I don’t even know where to go to get one.
But all that is irrelevant to the point I wanted to make…
And that is please do NOT buy an Oculus device!! Get anything besides that. The controls and restrictions that FB is putting on them are completely unacceptable, and we as consumers cannot reward that behavior by purchasing their products. I’ve even seen unconfirmed rumors that Germany literally made it illegal for them to sell them there because of these issues. That is something I would ordinarily be opposed to, but because of the unique circumstances with Oculus, FB, and them trying (and so far succeeding) in cornering the VR market completely, I’m making an exception to my normal objections to government doing such a thing.
So as much as I want to see the G2 succeed, sell it, send it back, do whatever it is you feel is appropriate, but replace it with anything but an Oculus.
Thank you for letting me rant, this is a topic that has me peeved off, and has become kind of a pet project for me. Not that little old me is going to win going up against FB, but if I can save even a small handful of people from making that mistake, I’ll feel better.
@CptLucky8, what does NB: mean?
Nota Bene (it is latin):
This is trial and error and you usually change the values in an opposite fashion: raise blue/ lower red (or vice-versa @KevyKevTPA this one is Latin too )
The neat thing about these registry keys is that you can see the change immediately: every time the headset sensor is detecting presence, it reloads the registry values, so that you can quickly remove HMD, change values, put back HMD and compare.
I’ve posted the above to compare and document each one experience against the 3 possible outcomes in the end: sharp, sharp but with fringes, blurry.
Let’s try to compile some feedback.
Do most of you with a G2:
- Usually need reading glasses?
- See sharp like the 2nd picture (no fringes)?
- Or like the 3rd picture (with fringes)?
[updated with the question about reading glasses]
PS: Thank you for any one participating and I hope this will in the end reveal it is not a widespread problem but just mine because in this case, I’d be more than happy sending it for RMA and not thinking I’ve a useless piece of VR equipment, especially since with the latest SteamVR beta I can run the Index comfortably at TAA100 SS124/128 (EFIS/GA) and at this level I can read small green EFIS lettering without any issue in the Index.
Closer to pic #2 for me
Yep, same for me. Picture #2 would be the visual clarity with my G2.
I’m still rummaging around on comparative tests (have to keep wife happy doing real world things!). I notice there is a thread on chromatic aberration in MSFS and the difference in 2D vs. VR settings: Here's how you turn off post processing effects! (Chromatic aberration for example)
When I look in the VR section of my UsrCfg.opt file, here’s what I find:
The OP post in the thread that I cite says that setting FRINGE to 0 removes the “artistic” chromatic aberration effect, at least in hangar scenes. What are your VR UserCfg.opt settings, @CptLucky8 ? Mine is 0.