Pursuing PPL after a lifetime of simming

Discussion Hub General Discussion
1

Hi, All

I have a major decision to make and I need your advice.
I started simming back in the dark ages with Microsoft Flight Simulator 2, and I often wished I had the time and money to get a pilot license and fly in real life. Now that I’m retired, and have the time and the money, I have decided that it’s time to fulfil the dream. So I contacted a local flight school and scheduled a discovery flight in a C172.

Here’s how it turned out.

The instructor was very thorough and talked through all of the procedures and checklists. I liked that. He was also very friendly and seemed to want to make sure I enjoyed the experience. I liked that.

The cockpit was much less comfortable than my cushy desk chair. It was cold and cramped–and soon got hot and stuffy.

Everything looked very familiar but felt very strange. The cockpit controls were much different from my desk controllers (Honeycomb Alpha/Bravo, Logitec pedals). Although I was able to successfully manage the assigned maneuvers it never did seem like I was in total control. It was like the aircraft was flying me.

Looking out the window I saw scenery I was very familiar with from MSFS, although there was much less snow on the ground than in the sim scenery. I was less impressed than I had expected to be. He had me fly over my house and I felt like “Yeah, been there, done that.” At one point he turned to me and said " You’re flying an airplane! How does it feel?" I think he expected me to respond with something like “This is totally awesome!” Instead, I said “Yeah it’s cool!” I felt like I should have been more excited than I was.

I really hate to admit this, but overall, I felt a little bit let down by the whole thing. Is this a common experience for flight simmers, or am I just not cut out for real life flying? Have I been spoiled by the magnificence of MSFS in VR? Is the realism of flight simulators becoming a viable replacement for the real thing?

It could be that I was just not the target audience for this. The purpose of a discovery flight is to let the potential student see what flying is like. Well, I feel like I already know.

I’ve decided to at least schedule a few more lessons just to see if my first time was just a fluke. It may get better once I get more familiar with the controls and am able to feel in control.

What do you guys think? Has anyone had a similar experience? Am I climbing the wrong ladder?

4 Likes
2

I love flying for real. I don’t think anything can beat it. The 3D motion and not overflying the aircraft is fantastic. I’d sooner spend my money on more real flying than simulator updates. That said, I don’t fly anything with a glass cockpit so maybe that’s affecting how you feel?

4 Likes
3

I’ve got two browser tabs open — one for a club at my local municipal airport, and one for an online ground school course.

My concern about the real thing is nearly all that you wrote. I have not done the introductory flight you have, but I’ve pondered it going precisely as you describe.

I’m also trying to decide if I’m really going to put in the kind of hours flying IRL to warrant the entire expense and be skilled enough to not be dangerous. I don’t do things poorly. I do them well or not at all. I’m also not at the age where I’m going to be seeking some sort of employment as a pilot. That time has passed, I wish it hadn’t.

I want my own plane, my other half absolutely doesn’t want my own plane.

I’m very interested in where you will go with this.

For me, the ground school knowledge is what I am very much seeking. I know a ton, have a bunch of student manuals, etc., but the organization of an actual course that has structure is what I’m seeking. This sort of knowledge would have direct usefulness in my simming.

Do keep us in your thinking as you consider moving forward on this.

1 Like
4

You are correct, a discovery flight is not targeted towards someone like you. I can’t say because I never followed through with PPL, but based on sim forums and members that do fly IRL, I would expect sim experience to have both benefits and downsides to pursuing IRL flight license.

Yes, it is good to know how the systems and avionics work. But, if those systems and avionics are good models of the real world, it might hurt you more than help you.

If the bulk of a simmers experience is in MSFS, I wouldn’t expect it to be a huge asset to IRL training. But if the experience is in XP, I would expect it to have significant value – especially if using study level versions of the IRL aircraft, and flying as one would IRL.

I wish MSFS was poised to add more value than harm, and it is on a good path now, but still I don’t think it is there yet. I know I will get clobbered for those views, but they are my views, and based on decades of MSFS use, then a decade of XP after MS divested.

I learned more about flying, and especially IFR, in XP than I ever learned in MSFS.

1 Like
5

I have no real world flying experience, but have had similar outcomes in different aspects of life. Is it possible (as was in my case) that over the years you built it up so high in your own mind, that no matter the experience that day, it wasn’t going to live up to what you had in your mind?

1 Like
6

Our set of mission packs might be just the thing:

7

Thanks for sharing this link.

However I think one of my problems may have been that I had TOO MUCH simulator training. I was so familiar with the instruments, flight controls, procedures, etc., that real life somehow felt less real. I did handle the aircraft correctly according to my sim training. But I think I was so caught up in “doing things right” that I missed out of the experience of flying I might have had if I had just “let go.”

I think this type of training will come in handy as I start the actual lessons and can take it a step at a time.

1 Like
8

I think you’ve hit the nail on the head. You need to learn to enjoy the feeling and sensation. It’s soo much more than just the procedures etc. I never actually got my PPL because life got in the way and money ran out but I still take a few lesson each year because I love the experience.

1 Like
9

I think you’re on to something there.

10

I’m sure a first solo flight would be a totally different experience.

I was reading a pilots forum yesterday where they were discussing their ideal single engine airplane and I could not tell that they were discussing real life as I understood everything they were discussing, down to the models of the airplanes, Garmin systems, etc.

I do want to get a PPL, but the cost of avaititon has gotten insane. As I child, I remember it was something anyone could do if they wanted.

But just the cost of a basic single engine prop is around a half million dollars. You can spend that on a Cessna 172! Of course, that is for all modern avionics. A little over 10 years ago I was working for an airline that purchased light jet aircraft for less than that.

I’ve also read lamenting on the increasing costs of insurance pushing out privet pilots.

11

Yeah, that’s what I’m thinking (and hoping…).

12

That is a valid point as simulators cannot reproduce the FEEL of flying.

In many ways I found that even ‘level D’ full flight simulators lack the right feel, mostly from slow response and lack of Gz (Vertical G). Also the sideways swinging moment of weather cocking i to wind isn’t nearly as sharp or harsh as the real aircraft (A320 for reference).

Also sims tend to promote bad habits such as trimming visually rather than trimming the force out of the stick (as FFB controls are almost impossible to obtain these days) plus poor lookout, as your screen is narrow and there is rarely anyone there to see.

Nothing replaces real experience, but sims can greatly enhance your training, so my top tip would be to go and do just one 1-hour flying experience, so you get the feel, sounds and general experience of VFR, then go back to MSFS and build from there. It’ll cut your flying hours immensely and reduce frustration.

Happy landings,
David
FS ACADEMY

3 Likes
13

When I first started out flying IRL I had years of sim experience as well. It was more of a nervousness combined with scanning the real instruments looking inside for most of my flights (I did 3 intro flights at 3 flight schools in 1 weekend) that kept me from the full enjoyment. Everything I did during the training time was focused. There were a few times I smiled and enjoyed what I accomplished. One of those was doing a turn around a point and coming back into my own propwash turbulence.

On my first long solo cross country was when the feeling really hit me. I had scheduled the flight during my normal working hours having taken time off work on short notice (which I was doing due to weather issues). My employer at the time was ThrustMaster so they understood and were behind me with working on my pilots license. I was flying over the interstate looking down at all the cars and thinking about the working “stiffs” stuck in their offices :slight_smile: . That’s when I smiled and started to really enjoy the freedom of flight.

I chose the local 3 flight schools all relatively the same distance from home and 2 of the 3 were right next to where I worked so it was a 5 minute drive to get to the flight school. One was a large school, the largest in the city (Portland, Oregon). The second one was smaller, a few planes and several instructors. The third was a single guy with one plane. I chose the middle ground and am happy I did. I’m still friends on social media with my instructor from 23 years ago.

So your first experience won’t necessarily be the best. As long as the motion (wait for the unusual attitude checks ;)) doesn’t induce a sickness each time you fly. That and the fear of the fan stopping on you. that can really heat things up :rofl:

If you get through those you’ll start to enjoy it more as your confidence and experience improve.

2 Likes
14

Thanks for those hopeful words. That what I was wanting to hear.

I did get just a little sick on the discovery flight (but then I had the same feeling on my first VR flight, too). It was pretty windy that day too, so I assume I will get more comfortable after a couple of flights, like I did in VR.

1 Like
16

My first flight was when I was nine (maybe ten?) years old. It was in a WWII era Vultee BT13 “Valiant.”

Screenshot 2022-02-25 111031

I was already pretty nuts about flying, and especially about WWII era aircraft. I could name every one, and all the stats to go with them. :slight_smile:

My Discovery Flight was a dozen years later, in a very tired and rather worn, smelly, Piper PA28-140 Cherokee. It was one of the local FBO’s trainers, and they told me it was tagged to be replaced by the then-new PA-38-112 Piper Tomahawk. The instructor was great, letting me taxi and takeoff on that very first flight. It cost $5.00 to experience what can only be described as better than anything I’d ever experienced that didn’t involve “dinner and a movie.” :wink:

The feeling of breaking free of the runway is like nothing else you can experience, and when you’re in the left seat? Absolutely fabulous!

I went back and soloed in that brand new Tomahawk, then transitioned to a tired old Cessna 150. No regrets; that old Cessna felt like pulling on a worn pair of favorite slippers.

After forty-four years I feel exactly the same way every time I fly. It is absolutely the best “hobby” accomplishment in my life, second to none.

I’d say, give it another chance or two. Just my $0.02…

4 Likes
17

Schedule a real lesson and decide if it is something you want to pursue as it is a very expensive hobby.
What you are describing is the feeling of being behind the airplane not being in complete control that will change in time. As smilyor1 posted not everyone 's stomach can handle unusual attitudes and other flight maneuvers.
Flying for me has been a 50year love affair even now just flying my desktop rig makes me ache to get back the saddl .The fist time I booted up this version of flightsim and shot a nighttime approach at a familiar airport I was suddenly 20 years younger .

2 Likes
18

Very interesting , thanks for writing this. I too have been curious about flight lessons.

For me I would hope the actual feeling of the plane on the runway and forced to your body as you fly would get me more into it. Also the smells.

I remember a friend taking me up in his Cessna 152 and it was a different sensation than what I was expecting, almost like you were floating.

My experience in a Huey chopper was the exact opposite and was a thrilling ride. :grinning:

19

Simmer since FS4 and have my private. Lots of good points made here already, but just to maybe add some additional perspective:

  • Boring flights = disappointing if you have expectations. I don’t really remember my discovery flight. I do remember my first solo, and I do remember my first solo cross country. And then there are flying experiences you can’t possibly have in the simulator. Like flying in one of these:

image
image1024×558 25.2 KB

Or landing on a glacier lake on Denali

image
image1024×768 97.6 KB

I was fortunate enough to grow up around experimental aviation and have some of these amazing flight experiences, and that kept it in perspective for me. This is what it’s all about, and these were the real discovery flights. The training was just the work to open these doors.

  • Real flying and sim flying are very different feelings, and some people just don’t like that feeling. And that’s ok. I also get terribly air sick. I slogged it out and got my private, and am doing better now, but for awhile I was thought I was just going to keep my feet on the ground.

I think it’s great that you’re giving it a few more chances. I’d say stick it out until your first solo. If you’re not having any fun by then, you are a proud flight simmer!

2 Likes
20

I got my PPL in 1987 at the ripe old age of 21. I probably had a couple hundred hours of right seat IFR time by then (mostly in a 210) courtesy of Dad. The last flight was in 2012, in a ‘46 Aeronca.

I was not enamored with flying when I started taking lessons either. A 152 was nothing special, I’d already done left seat time in a 150, but I followed through because my private ticket was my college graduation present. The 152 felt sluggish and weak compared to a 210 or even a 172. It wasn’t until I went through several lessons and got loaded up enough to get “busy” flying the airplane that it became engaging, challenging and fun. My instructor had to cover up instruments and force me to look outside more because I had too much time flying IFR in the 210 - and it showed. I equate that to simming, which really does have you looking at the dash entirely too much for VFR flying. I recommend you get started by scheduling a few lessons. Learn how to fly the plane by looking outside instead of looking at artificial horizons and turn coordinators. If you make it to solo (9 hrs for me) and still aren’t engaged, quit. If you are engaged, look forward to departure stall recovery, spins (if your instructor will teach you), unusual attitudes and cross country navigation. Those things were all challenging and entertaining enough to keep me involved.

21

Keep at it my friend. Are you in the US?
I’m a student right now and it’s been fantastic, first solo was one of the most fun days I’ve ever had.
Everyone has doubts, I say do another couple lessons, you’ll soon get used to the differences like not as comfortable, hot/cold temperatures and seatbelts. Eventually you’ll start to miss stuff like that while simming!
Cheers and good luck, keep us updated!