It will never happen, we can’t even get the most basic of optimisations, Asobo do not have any specialists in the ‘vr platform’, it’s a dream
Jorg said they are aware of it in the last dev stream, and that there are active email exchanges about it. Best thing the VR community can do now is to keep this thread alive, and to keep pushing on Asobo.
- It’s not a conspiracy. It has zilch to do with incompetent CEOs.
- It’s not VR that Meta wants to sabotage, but specifically PCVR.
Meta isn’t subsidizing their Quest line of headsets, and selling them below cost, out of the goodness of their hearts. That is an investment Meta expects to recoup. How? By creating a user base large enough that developers can’t afford not to sell their VR applications in the VR store, where Meta takes a 30% cut of all sales.
For Meta, PCVR is an obstacle to achieving that goal, because PCVR is an open ecosystem that nobody controls, and therefore doesn’t provide Meta (or anyone) with a 30% cut.
This is why Meta wants PCVR dead. It’s only using PCVR as a stepping stone to further its own goals. Again, not a conspiracy. Just normal everyday capitalism.
Every Quest sold is another stone in the path towards PCVR’s doom, because it strengthens Meta’s closed ecosystem while weakening PCVR’s open ecosystem.
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I understand how OpenXR quad views is intended to work. I don’t understand how your OpenXR toolkit gets an application that doesn’t support it to look like it does. Is there a technical deep-dive somewhere that explains what your toolkit is doing?
Also, VR requires the scene to be rendered twice, once for the left eye and once for the right eye. So why isn’t single-pass instanced stereoscopic rendering required to render the scene for any VR display? Why does that capability only become a necessity in the context of quad views?
To be clear again, OpenXR Toolkit uses VRS which is completely different technique than Quad Views.
I was going to write a cute tutorial explaining this but I never finished it 
So I usually just explain it, like on this post here was the most recent time I explained how VRS injection works:
For short it’s about intercepting some of the calls made by the engine for rendering, and then inject the additional commands to program VRS. More on the VRS commands:
It isn’t required, it’s “very nice to have optimization” for stereo. Optimizations are, by definition, not required for functionality. In the case of VR, one would argue that “hitting refresh rate” is a functionality though
Re: quad views, its really difficult to make a case for quad views without instanced rendering because this could mean to multiply by 2 the current CPU overhead of rendering. Again, it’s not a necessity, but take most games, if you double the CPU frame time, it will negate the gain of Quad Views, because you will go from GPU-limited to CPU-limited quite fast.
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Thank you for the response! Yes. That much I understand. I’m still not clear about something though.
You seem to draw somewhat of a direct line between quad views and ISR (instanced stereoscopic rendering). IF quad views… THEN ideally ISR.
However, I’m assuming any VR application benefits from using ISR, even without quad views, because every VR application has at least two views, one for each eye. Having those two views rendered in a single pass already reduces CPU load.
Adding quad views to the equation just makes ISR even more worthwhile.
Would you agree with my understanding of the situation?
Thank you! Exactly what I was looking for!
This is correct. Sadly there are many apps today not doing this, including MSFS.
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Is this something difficult to achieve or it’s just laziness from devs?
From a business perspective you have to consider if the whole VR community would benefit from that or just a select few. As a Reverb user there is no benefit had for me to gain so you have an even smaller niece with headsets that have eye tracking and probably an nVidia GPUs is needed.
BUT if this feature was built, i would most likely be inclined to upgrad my AMD GPU and Reverb headset.
Quad views FFR can work on any headset and provide gains. Ask the DCS community. If built into the engine rather than using the OpenXR extensions, it can work out of the box on any headset.
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I think you mean unfunded and overworked devs. It’s rarely the devs fault.
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Yeah, laziness wasn’t a good word..
I agree, as Asobo Team should not forget that VR is already a huge market and fast evolution/growing ( more acceptable prices and improving quality ) - Game changer especially in Flight/Racing Sim ( and future of this market ). Quadview, OpenXR, Eagle Dynamics, Pimax are doing best to make it better each day for Us ( Players, or Pilots ). It is not something that is a nice to have, but a must as can improve performance dramatically with relatively very low cost / small DEV effort, and really should be considered as a priority. It works in DCS without so huge impact of CPU usage.
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I am just baffled how VR gets neglected especially for simulators who have provlbably the most fanatic VR users.
Basically there is no new racing sim which supports DFR, none.
How can Pavlov made by small company support Quad views and MSFS not? It’s ridiculous, truly ridiculous. This is a Microsoft product, the biggest PC company in the world.
Is everything purily about money? If you see your own product in VR you would think these developers who are gamers at heart would be blown away right?
You know what is missing? Passion, there is just no passion anymore. Not everything is about maximizing profit all the time is it? Would they truly loose a lot of money if they would hire one or two extra engineers for a while specifically to implement DFR?
You have modders who do things for free or some Patreon coffee money. Yet these big companies can’t implement DFR. It’s frustrating to say the least.
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It was a happy accident. The developer turned on the option in Unreal Engine without knowing what it did. Note that in Unreal Engine, quad views is a base feature of the engine that’s a click away, as long as your game shaders are compatible with it.
Quite literally, yes. If you read these comments from game developers about what I brought up recently (Meta’s plugin for Unity/Unreal blocking non-Meta platforms), several developers responded that they only care about supporting Meta’s headset because this is where they’ll make money. (NOTE: this is unrelated to MSFS).
DFR is never going to have a breakthrough in VR until Meta supports it. But, since Meta basically stopped supporting PC, it will never happen on PC (even the Quest Pro that does support eye tracking, does not offer this option on PC unless you are in Developer Mode or use a 3rd party platform like Virtual Desktop - aka the stuff they are also blocking with their developer tools).
You see the issue? Developers only care about Meta. Meta does not care about PCVR gaming.
Rather “misplaced” passion. Go have a conversation with any “XR” developers in a big company in the last three years. They’re excited about AR and making gadget apps that use environment mapping. They’re excited about multi-app content, aka what will ultimately end up allowing product placement and advertisement within your XR experience. None care about PCVR gaming.
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Great breakdown. Crazy how Meta has such a monopoly and that they are so aggressive about PCVR, didn’t know that.
I do see why AR will eventually takeover smartphones, but the gaming industry is also really big.
Yeah it’s obviously all about money and big corporates who aggressively hold down developments such a shame
It’s really sad that those in the know, like yourself are so pessimistic about PCVR 
It paints a dark picture.
Is there anything to be positive about to happen in this space in your view? Anything to look forward to? Can you cheer us up please, just a shimmer of hope pretty please 
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