Question for the real world pilots here

I am far from worried about that these days (I get it, it’s a joke) :grinning_face_with_smiling_eyes: In my extremely humble opinion and from personal experience, not conversing with God could easily lead to a failed life :boom:

3 Likes

For the OP…

I don’t think there is a one answer solves this. It take effort and perseverance.

When I got bored, either I was not pushing myself, the FAA medicals were not trying to ground me, nor the airplane itself was not trying to turn me into a ‘millionaire’.

Maybe the training is not ‘pushing’ enough? Good Luck.

100% agree with this. There is nothing like “the real thing.”

When I first got my PPL (in 1978) I was very “goal oriented” - also in a flying club that kept prices low for me - and got far enough along to nearly complete the study for a Part 135 certificate. All I needed was the hours.

I had a good friend flying a Metroliner for a small regional carrier at the time, and his advice changed my focus. He simply asked me if I loved to fly. The answer, of course, was a resounding “Yes!” His response surprised me. He said, “I do too, but not as much as I used to. Once it became a job things changed.” That’s a quick and dirty summation, but in a nutshell, that’s what he told me way back when.

I’d absolutely get your Instrument Rating. It will make you a safer pilot, even if all you ever do is fly daytime VFR. That’s all I ever do these days - well, night flying too - although COVID sure changed my life this past year. I can’t wait to get back up in the air, but Flight Sim - unavailable when I first got my PPL - has helped me during the time I’ve been grounded. As mentioned (and as you know) it’s not the same as the real thing. However, I could not learn to fly a DC-6 in the real world, which is what I’ve been doing the past few weeks. :slight_smile:

Good luck with whatever you do, and happy landings!

3 Likes

Could not agree with you more. Quit RL flying after obtaining CPL+IR. Turned out a financial nightmare. Could not secure a steady income. Securing an income in another profession and making RL flying a hobby, was never an option. Still figuring out if this is due to lack of love/lack of motivation or just good financial managment. After all motivation is everything? My guess here is that the dream of flying IRL slowly died. Happily flightsimming as from Microsoft’s FS5 (And spending money).

1 Like

For OP: I’m getting my ultra light license, not having the money for PPL this one gives me the alternative to actually fly something close to your average Cessna.

I’m almost 47 y/o and have spent all my life simming, now I finally have a real chance to fly for real.

Yet sometimes I do feel you. Simulation has improved so much that I can do at home what I do for real, and then some.

Also, at first for me it was about the sensation of lifting away from the ground. You know, flying. But even in real life that sensation faded down, the ‘wow’ factor has gone and I love aviation for what it is. Again, I have this also at home.

It’s certainly not about love to aviation, anyone questioning it can simply not understand the point. BECAUSE of such love and being able to fly at home with this degree of reality you wonder why bothering going to the airport and spend that much money.

I will get my license, but yes, sometimes flying at home is indeed as good for me.

1 Like

Hi, I have been flying a profesional pilot for 30 years, I am still current and rated (Rotary and fixed wing) but mostly „flying a goverment desk“ lately.
Aviation has been and is my life and my passion and becoming a pilot has been one of the best things I have done in life.
However „pilot life“ is not what it looks like from outside. I flew helicopters, Search and Rescue, HEMS, Firefighting, I cannot talk about airline operations but I guess what I am about to tell also applies to them.
If you work on as professional on this, flying stops being a romantic dream or idea and becomes a job.
People associate flying with freedom, but this only works when you fly for yourself as „hobby“
When you work as a pilot, you fly when they tell you, to where the tell you, with whatever weather and at whatever time of the day or night.
Everything you do starts to be scrutinized to the milimeter by your company, goverment inspectors and even your customers/passenger have a say.
It is no longer a hobby, becomes a job you need to perform to pay your bills and in the process somewhere you kill the flying dream a little bit. I know some of my fellow pilots that have killed the flying dream and now simply see flying as a specialized job but there also other like myself that despite being „professiona pilots“ nad having killed some parts of the dream, we still have the love and passion for flying. And this is why you find us here, in the simulators and also flying light aircraft just for the joy and pleasure.
In RL I fly helicopters, you will never ever see me flying a helicopter in MSFS, helicopters are „my job“ and approach that profesionally.
But here in MSFS I ca do other type of flying that keeps part of the flying flame bright.
Last weeks I cannot have enough of the PMDG DC-6 I have real all the manuals, reproduced historical routes, remembered how to make an NDB approaches, reading books about DC-3…Now just dreaming for a study level DC-3…
However a PC desktop is not enough for me and in the last 15 years I got a fixed wing multi-engine (piston) IFR rating and when I want to enjoy the freedom of flying and see the incredible beautines of our planet then I fly a light airplane.
When I fly for work, I am professional with responsabilities, a mission to complete and a multimillion machine and a crew to be accounted for. There is no room for dreams or fun there, just then satisfaction of a safe a efficient operation.
For dreaming…I fly light aircraft and also sims.
In a few years I will retire but I will never „retire“ from flying (in a light aircraft or a PC)
Becoming a professional pilot means „transforming“ your dream of flying, it will never be the same and has a severe impact in your family life. But at the same time it could be the most exciting, challenging and rewarding experience.
There is no right or wrong anwer here, it is up to everyone expectations and dreams and to the effort and sacrifices you are willing to take. However if you ask me I would not „start“ a professional aviation career at 45 years old specially if you have now a stable and confortable life. Keep flying as your dream and passion and enjoy it.
Sorry for the long post…got carried away.

10 Likes

To the original author starting this string…it took a lot of courage bringing up this topic (probably knowing it may not be taken seriously and becoming a “flame fest”! But I appreciate you did because I’ve been feeling the same way and can relate. I also appreciate the responses you generated because it helped give me some perspective. I got my PPL right around 9/11, and for a number of reasons, am only at around 145 hrs today, the last flight being maybe 6 years ago. I love to talk aviation with the people I meet, but become somewhat ashamed that I haven’t continued to pursue real life flying. They’ll often ask “have you been flying?” I can talk as I have been flying due to spending so much time simming, but then have to admit no, and that it’s been awhile. I think the responses you’ve generated have helped me feel that there should really be no shame in this, and that simming helps fuel the passion. I still hope I can find the opportunity and motivation to get back into RW flying, and possibly become a CFI as I go into retirement. For now, I’m content with flight simming! …so again, thank you for generating this discussion.

3 Likes

Take a chill :pill: captain happy. It has nothing to do with being “gods gift to aviation” or something. I agree with @PZL104 posts, if there is already doubt then its probably not a good idea to pursue a career in aviation or at least think about it twice (or more).

If you are not 200% sure about pursuing a career in aviation, then don’t do it is my advise. A career in aviation is first of all a big investment in time and money, after which the actual learning starts. You’ll be studying your whole career and constantly your performance is being tested. In US you’ll need to scrape together 1500 hrs total time somehow before going to the regionals. Every crisis aviation is hit the first and recovers last so not that stable either. If you are already in doubt and think that flight simming might satisfy your needs then I don’t think its a good idea to pursue a career in aviation. You need to be absolutely sure and be 200% motivated. I’m not trying to paint a dark picture but you need to take all these things into consideration to make a sound decision its not always as fun as it seems.

For me it’s like this: I really love flying but I don’t like aviation. With aviation I mean the industry, the politics, the instability, the thin margins etc. it can be really toxic. For me personally the good moments make up for the bad ones and I can’t imagine using a simulator as a replacement for that. Flight simulators (even level D sims) are so different from the real thing. Its hard to compare the two. The visuals are coming pretty close with MSFS the rest not so much, the sensation of flying is missing, the stress and adrenaline in certain situations, even a Level D FFS can’t replicate that 100%.

Real world is so much more dynamic, a lot of variables are simply missing in a sim. Being an commercial pilot is all about managing, managing the automation, energy and flight path management, managing aircraft systems and more importantly dealing with people: passengers, cabin crew, ground crew, refueling, engineers, planning etc. Its all about managing those resources effectively, good CRM and so on. The environment is more dynamic as well, air traffic, weather, ATC, a simulator can’t simulate all those factors. If gives a kick when things flow as they should, being able to solve all problems and work together efficiently as a team, effective communication, the words coming out of your mouth correctly when communicating to ATC, when you are busy and stressed (in a good way) but not overstressed, its hard to explain. Its not possible to replicate that in a simulator. Being a simulator pilot also has loads of advantages of course, fly whenever and wherever you want, ignore all rules and explore. I certainly understand why it’s more appealing and a better option for some to just fly in MSFS every once in a while. Overall its becoming really close to the real deal visually and its free apart from the initial investment (and then add-ons and joysticks and … :joy:).

On a personal note, I graduated 13 years ago during the financial crisis (started before the crisis hit). After flight school I was washing aircraft, an aircraft owner saw me cleaning aircraft and let me fly his private aircraft (turboprop and jet), in my spare time I was then giving classroom instruction, then became a flight instructor (all the while struggling to pay my bills). Then the flight school I was working for started an airline so I became involved with that, became first officer and later captain, flight ops and ground ops manager and everything in between, in the meantime being promised to fly the spaceshuttle, golden mountains and what not, never happend. I’m now flying for a more professional regional airline. During the pandemic the airline reduced my workload (and pay) in order to survive. Lost a lot of money (which wasn’t that much to begin with :upside_down_face:), moved out of my apartment to live at a cheaper place, sold my car etc. Now having my own company to freelance here and there and working on other projects while waiting for the workload for my main job to increase to pre-COVID levels. I can’t complain really, at least I’m still flying, many of my friends and colleagues aren’t so fortunate. So yeah got screwed and lost loads of money a couple of times :wink:, still don’t regret becoming a pilot. I think it has been (and still is) a more interesting path compared to flying a Boeing 737 or A320 straight after flight school. Especially flying the Jetstream 32 (no flight director, autopilot or FMS) as a captain was a valuable experience.

That’s aviation, doesn’t have to be a struggle of course, but you need to be prepared and willing to accept the risks. It can be a quite long and painful road as it’s a tough industry to work in and easily knocked over in case of a crisis since the margins are razor thin. If you are extremely passionate about flying its totally worth it but 200% motivation is an absolute requirement.

9 Likes

I fully agree with your whole post.
Edited my post and exchanged aviation with flying, since that’s what I actually had in mind.

2 Likes

The point of ‘flying’ vs ‘aviation’ really nails it.
I’m very far from the big aviation industry, I’m just getting my ultralight license but still at this low level the romantic idea of flying gets buried under procedures, rules, navigation etc…
Those are appealing as well, but I completely get the point about how it all can eventually become more a job than a passion.

2 Likes

Very interesting topic to read though. I’ve been a simmer for 15 years and a qualified pilot for 10 years.

After working my way through GA to the airlines, I haven’t flown ‘for fun’ in about 6-7 years now. Whilst I still get a lot of enjoyment and satisfaction from my day job flying around the country, it’s a whole different level of fun that I am able to experience from my hobby in flight sim- getting to pick from a variety of GA airplanes and go explore beautiful scenery all around the globe from the comfort of my home. There’s definitely room to enjoy both the RL and virtual aviation worlds in parallel as far as I see it.

1 Like

yeah I couldn’t agree more on the “flying” vs “aviation” part.
I am a qualified and experienced Airline Pilot. I have a good amount of hours on Airbus.
But here is the thing. I was flying during the economic crisis a few years back. During that time, the aviation industry wasn’t fun at all. Then it got better. Then came covid-19. All grounded.
The aviation industry is not very stable. As long as everything goes well, great. But the slightest issue causes the aviation industry to go crazy.
On top of that, you need to keep your ratings valid. Especially in Europe this costs a lot of money. If you just want your license, get a job, and keep your type rating valid, the Airline will take care of it. But keeping your IFR and ME valid is for you.

For me it’s easy. They abused a lot during the economic crisis. Asking us to fly more hours for less money. I love flying, but I have my limits.
Then with covid, I took the decision to get my Flight Instructors rating. I like instruction. Ans I like talking to like minded people and have fun. Flying an Airliner is great. But be careful, it gets very monotone after a while. And Airlines try to take advantage of you whenever they can. At least this is my experience.

Normally you can combine a good family life with being an Airline Pilot. But Airlines can very quickly change that.

So it all really comes down to what you want. Having a PPL and IFR can provide a lot of fun !

1 Like

I do think your conclusion is a bit harsh, and looking at the first part of your post (with which I tend to agree, although I can’t back it up with personal experience), it’s also a bit strange to conclude.

If topic starter had written: I’d rather play GTA-V than go flying… it would have sounded similar to me as to what he writes now. And you seem to agree: simming is nothing like the real thing. So replace ‘simming’ with ‘GTA-V’ and it’s clear you can’t simply conclude his career choice is wrong.

So what are we actually comparing here? Sitting at home, behind the computer, playing a ‘game’ versus a real life career. It’s a really strange comparison.

To me that sounds like a boatload of possible other ‘problems’ (e.g. depression, feeling overwhelmed, trying to hide - might be just a passing feeling or something deeper) than simply ‘the love doesn’t run deep enough’.

I can’t believe the number and quality of the responses folks, I will be reading each and every one of them. I’ve been doing a lot of thinking since I first posted this, and I really appreciate every response!

7 Likes

Folks - this has been a good topic by and large but I would like to remind you to keep things civilized and within the Code of Conduct which y’all signed up to. If you need to remind yourself of the terms of the code then you can find it here Code of Conduct - Microsoft Flight Simulator Forums and in particular this section Code of Conduct - Microsoft Flight Simulator Forums

Thanks for your understanding

What is all the anger about, there is nothing elite about anything posted in this thread. The point people are trying to make is simply, if you are already in doubt you probably aren’t passionate enough to pursue a career as a commercial pilot, at least think about it twice. The times were being a pilot is considered “elite” with high salaries, low working hours and a clear career path are over. If you really really love flying its worth the time, money, effort and sometimes frustration, otherwise there is a real chance of becoming deeply disappointed.

Read it again. One here especially thinks if you aren’t a real pilot and don’t have a license, you don’t love aviation as much as he does. I disagree.

I’m not reading it as such, matter of interpretation.

Apparently.

We are talking here about someone who has the choice, not someone who can’t get a medical, lost his medical or doesn’t have the financial options to pursue a career in aviation or simply doesn’t have the cognitive capability. In that context I don’t see anything wrong with the “not loving aviation deeply enough”, its a tough statement maybe, it’s also a tough industry so get used to it :wink:.