Real World Pilots, please state your feedback about the flight model

Hi There.
Flew the FS2020 CAP10 to reproduce the real life flights I made , testing things in real life. Stalls are much better with the modern flight model. Legacy model is full innaccurate.

Using modern flight model, Spins are partially correct though. Initiatine a spin in stalling the plane while in a left turn, with too much rudder left generates a spin on the left. FS2020 gets this correct.

Stalling the cap10 in a left turn, with rudder on the right will generate a stalled roll on the right, with a spin rotating right… but FS2020 spins the plane left and no stalled roll on the right. That one is so brutal in real life, I lost my lunch in the bag.

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Guess the torque effect at stall speed and idle power is a little overdone.

That could be.
I redid the same test in FS2020 with the pitts, turning left, idle power, and rudder in or rudder out.

Rudder in ( ie left) , spins develop on the left.
Rudder out ( right) , no stall…

If they can tune this, that would be great…

To answer your question, in my case I fly both MSFS and FSX DX10 with ORBX Regions, ASN weather, and A2A planes.

As we are speaking of VFR Experience, in my case, when I look outside looking for landmarks that match the sectionals charts MSFS fails to show me antennas, towers, lighthouses… while my current FSX setup gives me better weather, better flight dynamics and although the visual quality can’t be compared with MSFS, it gives me the landmarks I expect to see when I fly with sectional charts and a better VFR experience overall.

On the other hand, I’m able to get this only when I fly over the ORBX regions, while MSFS gives me more the feeling of “virtual traveling” all over the world, but for me VFR experience means to simulate the completion of a VFR flight according to the rules of the area you are flying, not sightseeing randomly around the world.

I’m not saying that in the future MSFS won’t become better and better, I’m looking forward to it, but this is how it is right now.

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Yep the AP is somewhat broken. I deal with that issue by pulling the speedbrakes when it started climbing, seem soften the effect. Just don’t do it in real life out of habit lol.

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Yeah that’s the FSX one, it really shouldn’t be used aside for compatibility reasons with some aircraft

Agreed, towers and other obstacles are missing which is a problem (especially since my home area has a massive 300m tower that can be seen from miles away (and a nuclear power plant just across the border). These 2 are perfect nav landmarks

I found a very very good mod on floghtsim.to that adds antennas and other obstacles but only for Europe (good for me bad for you I suppose)

There is a wishlist item to add obstacles, vote on that

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Redid the spin test this morning, this time in left and right turns, to check wether the propeller/engine torque had an influence on the way the cap10 enters the spin, and there is definitely a problem in the model.

Either in a left or a right turn, stalling the airplane with the rudder outside of the turn does not develop the correct spin. always spins on the turn side, ie, left spin for a letf turn, and right spin for a right turn. I cannot get the plane to spin in the opposite direction of the turn, even with full rudder.

But I must admit, this is already way better than the legacy flight rules…

Dev team, one corner case to correct! if you have aerobatic planes in the catalog, they need to behave correctly!

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Hello HobiSeven, please check my Cap10 flight model fix at http://www.andreadrian.de/FS_2020_sailplanes/index.html
I try to make it as realistic as possible within the FS2020 limitations. I need real world pilots input.

@PaulFalke Thank you. I tried your model, and there is still an issue, as if I try to stall in a turn, with the ball inside ( ie crossing rudder and ailerons), It does not spin anymore. Actually, it should start a snap roll , that develops into a spin .

Probably the masking effect of the fuselage over the wing when not flying straight is not taken in account. It is not a trivial aerodynamic effect.

Well, as I said, the simulator is not perfet, but already quite nice. I use it to keep the basic mecanisms of flying sharp, as during Covid lockdown, no more flights in France.

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Please vote this one up!

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GA aircraft FEEL to light – as if they have hardly any mass, so when they change attitude, it feels like they change with excessive acceleration and deceleration - far to quickly… ie have little or no “Mass”

Acceleration, Deceleration , Moment of Inertia, Mass, F=MA etc etc …

If that is “too Technical” to most of us, I guess well should just say they are too “TWITCHIE”

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100% agree with your comments here.

Not having read all 670+ responses this may have been covered, but I just started flying the sim and thought I’d add my perspective based on the first few days.

The flight model in general feels better than FSX. The stalls feel more realistic, the wind blows the aircraft as I’d expect, and the visibility feels mostly right but I think the airport lights are too bright. In real life you can’t see the runway end marker lights from 10+ miles away, I feel like the sim almost highlights the airports.

My biggest gripe is the landing flare feel. In the real plane the controls get less sensitive as you slow over the runway, meaning that you pull more with less response from the plane. When landing say the SR22 in the sim, right over the runway as you want to go from nose down into the round out and then flare I feel like the joystick is more sensitive. I don’t know if that’s just me, but I’ve noticed that consistently.

Haven’t really done much with the avionics and AP yet. Will add to this thread after I have.

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In real life you can’t see the runway end marker lights from 10+ miles away, I feel like the sim almost highlights the airports.

Well, I think that was much worse in FSX. There I could spot airfields from really far. In my opinion that got way better in MSFS2020.

In the real plane the controls get less sensitive as you slow over the runway, meaning that you pull more with less response from the plane.

Totally agree with that. I don’t think the controls get more sensitive but my joystick has a constant drag no matter how fast the airplane is or how strong control movement is - which is completely unrealistic. But that’s more about the joystick than the simulator. Nevertheless I reduced sensitivity on pitch to -70% and of rudders -80% (Thrustmaster T-Flight Stick X). That’s what it brought a little close to me. I can flare SEP planes now to stall slightly above the ground until the main gear touches.

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Haven’t played FSX in a bit, but that’s probably right.

Yes, well said. I expect to have to move the controls more so I do and then I over control the aircraft.

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I have had a Private Pilots Licence since 1982 flying mainly small Cessnas and Piper Warriors. This is the fist SIM I have ever attempted and like some of you have already said, I am over compensating with the controls - in particular when I first try to flare.

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  1. What are you using for a controller?
  2. Have you reduced the sensitivity of the controller? Most people like the sensitivity around 50%, but, that’s a personal preference
  3. Even with the above all set correctly, given you can’t feel any forces, overcontrolling planes to impossible limits is quite common in sims until you get used to it. Sims like this are good for practicing procedures, but not so hot for actually learning the “touch” for actual flying because the controllers aren’t the same, and there are no forces holding you back. With some practice and immersion, you’ll get it. Just like in real flying, try to control with a finger.

Another thing I just figured out, since I have a CH Products throttle quadrant to control throttle etc, the throttle rotating axis on my Logitech Extreme3D Pro was unused. After reading a thread about somebody building a trim control, I thought I’d test out using the throttle on the Joystick as a Trim Axis (-100% - +100%). WOW!! What a huge difference in trim control.

I used to use joystick buttons to move it up and down incrementally, but there was always a lag and you could never set it “just right” like you can in real life. Now flying is sooooooo much easier, and I’m able to set up the planes I fly (GA piston) just like I do in real life and they fly sooooo much smoother. It’s really awesome. I suggest anyone with a free axis that you can leave in a position (no spring to center) to try setting it up for the elevator trim control axis. I haven’t tried using an AP with it set up this way, but I’m not much of an autopilot user anyway. More of a novelty to me.

And if anyone is wondering, this is I think a 45 degree spin axis, but, while it may seem like that wouldn’t give you enough control, it does. You can lock in the correct attitude for flight easily at any speed.

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Thanks for your response FlyingCool5650. I am using a Honeycomb Alpha yoke. I will investigate and see if I can turn down the sensitivity. FYI I think I am actually a pretty good pilot in real life with no issues that I can recall. However according to my flight log on here I have had 43 take offs so far but only 31 sucessful landings!! lol

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