Reminder: Always check your weight and balance

This occurred Sunday night at KJFK


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Article can be found here

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Is it possible to tip a plane in the sim? I’ve managed it by reversing (using reverse thrust) then braking too hard but that’s the physics of inertia at play rather than balancing the centre of gravity. It’s something I’ve never thought to try…

Moved to Real-life Aviation.

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I found the ATR is very easy to tip over by reverse in the sim :rofl:

By moving C.G (Centre of Gravity) beyond aft limit - in other words loading tail heavy.

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So it’s possible in MSFS, then?

Depends on how accurately C.G movement is modelled in a particular aircraft.

Would like to hear from any real ATP pilots, if this thing tipped as passengers were disembarking, during the flight how close was this plane to crashing from an unrecoverable stall?

Not hard to simulate.
All passengers and crew at 0lbs, no fuel and 10000lbs of load in the back.

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I’ve done it a couple times in MSFS and wondered if it ever happens in the real world.

It was probably more of an error by ground handlers. If they unloaded the forward cargo hold and passengers first and there was something heavy in the back, it could do that.

I was once on a flight (a Dash-8) where they loaded the passengers early because they had a lot of heavy cargo going into the back and they needed the passengers up front as counterweight to keep the CofG forward of the main wheels. It wasn’t a full flight, and we were all seated in the forward part of the aircraft. It seemed sketchy. I seriously considered asking to be put on the next flight…

There’s also this example of Air Canada stupidity from the '90s:

b747_21

After that event, they would stick a pole under the tail jacking point when their 747-400 combis arrived at the gate in order to stop it happening again.

I’m sure the aircraft was within CG limits with everyone and everything aboard. Like @FalconXboxOne said, trouble likely reared its head when everyone in the forward cabin deplaned and removed most of the weight from forward of the CG. Nobody in front with lots of people and a mountain of bags in back is a recipe for embarrasment!

Think of it this way: two equally sized kids sitting on a see-saw are perfectly balanced, but when one kid decides to jump off suddenly…thump!

I used to discuss this scenario with new Saab captains. We decided that, if you should find your plane sitting on its rump, it’s best for everyone to stay put and for the rampers to leave all the bags where they are. Making changes willy-nilly could cause the nose to come banging back down, probably on someone’s head! If during loading you think your plane is just about to tip over, don’t jump out of your seat to go yell at the rampers. Your behind might be the only thing holding the nose down!

Many aircraft require a “tail stand” for just this reason (think of a fancy metal “stick” that fits under the empennage). I know the Saab 340 had one (it was stored just inside the cargo door). My current carrier requires it on our 737-800s. Some versions of the 747 require one (the Combis, IIRC). I’m pretty sure I’ve seen photos of DC-8-60s and -70s with tailstands, too.