Ryzen9 7950X3D + RTX 4090 = internittent scenery stutters!

I noticed you are running the sim under Win 10 with the 7950x3d. Also you said you tried many things of which one was:

Have you tried running the sim under Win 11 with just the AMD/MS recommended updates to manage the 7950x3D CCD’s and no Process Lasso, messing with priorities etc? A summary of the standard updates needed is below.

From Tom’s Hardware:
AMD’s new thread management technique requires Windows 10 (1903) or 11 (21H2) and four components — a new chipset driver, updated BIOS, Windows Game Mode, and an updated version of the Xbox Game Bar (you can update through the Microsoft Apps store).

As a reminder, Windows Game Mode is meant to improve gaming performance by increasing the running game’s priority and reducing the priority of background tasks. The Xbox Game Bar is built into Windows and provides a wealth of functionality, from streaming and recording to system utilization monitoring, but it also detects games and triggers Game Mode. Both components work in tandem with AMD’s new thread-targeting tech.

AMD’s Collaborative Processor Performance Control (CPPC2) interface already ranks the fastest cores as the highest priority, enabling the OS to schedule threads into these ‘preferred’ cores first. Not all Ryzen cores can reach the rated peak frequency, so this tech is critical to ensure strong performance in lightly threaded apps, like gaming.

AMD’s new chipset driver installs a new AMD 3D V-Cache Performance Optimizer Driver that can change the CPPC2 performance rankings of the cores based on system events like the power mode or keyboard focus. As noted, CPPC2 typically ranks cores by frequency, but the new chipset driver can dynamically change the core rankings to prefer the 3D V-Cache-equipped chiplet when Windows Game Mode or the Mixed Reality power mode becomes active.

The Xbox Game Bar contains a KGL (known good list) of games that it detects when active, thus triggering Game Mode (you can also instruct the game bar to recognize unknown games and/or other applications as games). The driver communicates with the Windows Game Mode feature, which becomes active when the Xbox Game Bar detects a game is running.

This technique assures the OS thread scheduler can target the correct cores based on current usage — the 3D V-Cache enabled chiplet for cache latency-sensitive tasks like gaming, or the standard chiplet for workloads that respond best to higher frequencies. You can also override the automatic switching between core-ranking modes. This is accomplished in the BIOS by switching the CPPC core priority to either ‘frequency’ or ‘cache,’ but we found that the Xbox Game Bar’s KGL whitelist was effective for automatic gaming detection and optimization.

The chipset drivers also install the AMD PPM Provisioning File Driver, which improves performance by parking the slowest cores when Game Mode or Mixed Reality Mode is active. In effect, this shuts down the ‘standard’ CCD when Game Mode or Mixed Reality Mode is active, thus constraining latency-sensitive workloads (like games) to the 3D V-Cache chiplet. This improves the cache hit rate and reduces high-latency communication between the two CCDs, resulting in faster performance for workloads that don’t need access to (or benefit from) all the cores.

Link to full article: AMD Ryzen 9 7950X3D Review: AMD Retakes Gaming Crown with 3D V-Cache | Tom’s Hardware (tomshardware.com)

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It’s not an AMD thing. My specs are on my profile btw.
I just wonder if it has to do with the 40series card and the sim!

Hopefully it’s not driver related.

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Can confirm this happens under Windows 11

Can confirm the stutters are in 2D as well.

I updated Windows to KB5025305, NVidia drivers to 531.79, updated my Gigabyte BIOS, and absolutely no difference. I have both DCS and IL2 Great Battles installed as a point of comparison, being flight simulators with similar demands to load in terrain, and can confirm there are no stutters. The issue occurs even on the “low” graphics preset, with no internet connection.

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Are you running stock Win 11 w/no Process Lasso, messing with priorities, etc?

Correct. No process lasso, just ensuring game bar, chipset drivers, windows etc. is all up to date. Everything is set stock, including the power plan, set to balanced. The only overclock is EXPO 1, which brings my EXPO RAM to its specified 6000mhz. Otherwise, PBO is off, no manual tunings of any kind.

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I will look it up and open the ticket, but I’m not sure Asobo will pay attention to those, and with no VR team the chances they investigate and solve it are very remote… But let’s hope for the best…

I don’t like that approach. Reportedly it’s not very precise and it just shuts off some cores that could be use for other programs - I have a motion sim and once I’m done testing I have several apps I need to run. I was already using command-line affinity settings for all apps and MSFS even before this CPU. So my BIOS has “prefer frequency” cores set, so by default everything is pushed to faster CCD1. And my .BAT file is set to launch everything and set affinity to CCD1 (to make sure), and then MSFS (and only MSFS!) is assigned to CCD0 so it has all 8 3D cache cores to itself. I have another .BAT if I need to restart it (because it won’t restart once affinity is set), that clears affinity, launches the sim and sets affinity again after it launches. I can also run Process Lasso to make sure I cover all processes and force them to CCD1 but I don’t have to. That way I can be sure that nothing occupies CCD0 and MSFS has it totally to itself. I can also force SMT off for it (using odd cores only), though I haven’t noticed any difference, and make sure everything else, including Windows stuff only runs on CCD1. All cores are used, no parking involved.

I don’t have any, nor I have friends I can borrow from.

My 4K monitor is 60Hz, I think I have some tearing on it, possibly stutters too, but I’m not 100% sure. I can check later.

After so much expense on the PC I can’t afford a new VR right now. Besides, nothing looks really attractive. Reverb G2 is still the best for sims, for any reasonable budget. If there’s something that’s better and doesn’t cost thousands, I will upgrade, but I don’t see anything on the horizon right now… I love G2 in general All other games run perfectly on it. Controller tracking is not the best, but adequate. And the visuals are great. Also, the sound is pefrect, without pressing on my ears.

From the reaction to this topic, I’m afraid it is. Not many chances they rush to fix it any time soon…

I tried, but I can’t see the FPS counter in VR. And I don’t know without VR when stutters happen, because the VR mirror is not fluid and it’s hard to tell. With smaller stutters I think the FPS counter is not dipping into the red, but once in a while when a larger one appears, I can see OpenXR counter going red for a moment, or OXRTK counter going red. Those stutters are very rare though, not regular at all. The “normal” stutters I can’t see in the FPS counter, I think. Normally it’s too fast to dip the FPS.

Yes, I installed the sim in Win11 partition, without any optimizations, and with required settings, and I saw even worse stutters, exacerbated with a twitchy Reverb G2 tracking that many are complainign about in Win11. So it doesn’t look like it’s the Process Lasso. I also tested without Process Lasso. Worst case is that MSFS would use the normal core, which is a bit faster, just with normal cache. It should still run fine, but it has the same stutters.

BTW I also tested with RAM at stock clock, and all OC off on CPU/GPU/RAM. Same thing.

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Don’t frame it as a VR issue as I don’t think it is at all. The headset is just your display device, the root cause of the problem happens before it reaches your headset. That’s why it occurs with my 2D monitor also.

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Good point. I’ll need to confirm it’s reproducible in 2D first.

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Just turn on developer mode with graphs and take off the headset leaving VR enabled. The graph is clearly visible on the primary screen. You can turn the headset in your hands to see when stutters appear.

Yeah same here with 7950X3D and 4090. Have upgraded my PC three times, and had this intermittend stuttering with all combinations so far. Only play 2D

Maybe you should have this thread converted, so that people could vote on it.

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I just booted up my old PC - 4790K and 1080Ti with 16GB of DDR3 RAM. The stuttering issue isn’t apparent or certainly not as bad. What is interesting is this old PC is loaded with items in the community folder, generally not in a great state, haven’t deleted the rolling cache or anything fancy. But it just is a lot smoother. I made sure to update to the latest World Update so that it is an equal comparison of versions. So explain how this is possible?! Is there a scheduling problem with the 7950X3D? Is there another variable I am overlooking?

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Can’t be a 7950x3D issue, I have a 7800x3D and had the same issue on previous CPUs too, including Intel.

I’m just installing an earlier NVIDIA driver version, the same as my old PC to see if it’s related to the latest drivers.

EDIT: Okay I’ve got a little mission if anyone is willing to try - roll back using DDU to Nvidia’s 522.25 drivers and tell me if you see an improvement.

I am with a 13900k+4090, and curious, just tested and in 2D I have the same stutters when in VC and moving the aircraft, more noticeable when you do a 360º turn, in the outside with the drone moving around or in the external circle almost or not stutters. The GPU is sleeping at 37% of usage and one core is 100% and the total about 14%. With TAA 100, OPXR tools 100, no MR, HP G2 60Hz. Good and bad news, because if solved I could have with TAA and no more DLSS or MR, a really smooth experience in VR, not tied to the struggling and glitchy VR.

So for me just discovered clearly there is a big problem not tied exclusively to VR then. I will vote that vote-thread if someone create it, maybe in 2D better too as suggested as the VR is less took in account.

  • Did you have a look at the in-game FPS screen to see what causes the stutters?
  • Have you installed Windows Game Bar? This parks the non-v3d cpu cores during gaming.

i posted this in an other post, benchmarks for msfs with nvidia studio driver vs game ready driver

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Also, clear your environment data in your G2, and if need be run the setup again. I find that OXRTK doesn’t always undo the changes you make.

Any theories as to why the studio drivers are quicker? That’s quite a result.

And related to stutters or smoothness?

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The video is in Polish, which I unfortunately don’t understand