I’m trying to learn how to fly the airliners for the first time, on Xbox, starting with the stock Asobo Boeing 747-8i.
I’m realizing the functionality is … not completely modelled, can anyone suggest best practices for this particualr plane. For example, is it better to do the complete flight plan in the world map, or, to enter it manually in the FMC? I did try loading from the World map and the altitudes were ridiculous, wanting the plane to descend from FL420 to 9000 Feet in about 5 nm. So, yeah… hmm.
Am I wasting my time with the stock planes, and if so, what 3rd party Boeing do you recommend? I prefer realistic (study level would be great, but I’m not holding my breath). Thanks in advance.
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What do you mean “it wanted the plane to descend…”? Where are you seeing this in the world map flight plan?
That was in the FMC Legs for my flight plan. I don’t even know if VNAV works correctly or not on the stock 747, but it was obviously wrong. I wasn’t able to edit the altitude restrictions either, for some reason.
Maybe I should be asking this differently - on the stock Asobo 747-8i, what works and what doesn’t? eg, should I be able to enter and/or edit speed and altitude restrictions for waypoints? Does VNAV work as expected, following the flight plan’s altitude and speed restrictions?
Any recommendations for 3rd-party 747s that work on Xbox?
My personal opinion…if you want to start in with airliners, start with the A320. Yes, my preference for Airbus over Boeing is coming through here, but I personally find the A320 “easier” to fly than the 747/787.
Others will argue the opposite, but I find the Airbus AP to be very intuitive, as well as the auto throttle.
As far as VNAV is concerned, the HJet is the best example of an aircraft that has VNAV working properly IMHO.
Thanks for the suggestions, I want to learn to fly all the planes (a 10 year plan), but I’ve started in to the airliners with the Boeings. I’ve managed to figure out how to fly the stock 747-8i, but it takes more time to figure out what ISN’T working.
It’s really a shame that the Altitude and Speed restrictions in the Legs page of the FMC can’t be edited properly, and don’t match the altitude restrictions on the MFD (shown with Data enabled), Why does the MFD show the correct altitude restrictions, but the Legs don’t and the AP won’t follow them? Maybe MS / Asobo will come to their senses and ask Working Title to refresh the Boeing FMCs as well.
There are two 3rd-party Boeings (Bredok3d 737, and Captain Sim 777) available in the MSFS Marketplace for Xbox, but with 3 / 5 stars at most, and even if they were rated higher, I have zero confidence purchasing from the marketplace right now with all the stability issues, and zero guidance on how refunds work if the 3rd-party purchases don’t work as expected (or break after a Sim Update, etc).
I am familiar with the business jets with Garmin avionics - and they are great - but I was diving in to the deep end to learn the FMCs for Boeing, Airbus and CJ4 (waiting for Working Title’s refresh on the CJ4). Thanks.
Maybe if WASM for Xbox comes in SU11 and IF some 3rd-party developers choose to offer better versions on Xbox, I’ll stick with it. Otherwise, I think I’ll be looking for a PC. My learning curve so far (6 months in) isn’t on flying, but on what doesn’t work in stock planes.
Default aircraft are modeled with only basic features. That said, so is the PC version. Where PC begins to shine is with the 3rd party add-ons such as Flybywire and Fenix mods for the A320 plus many others for other aircraft. If this is what you’re looking for, PC wins hands down presently.
The issue that Xbox is struggling with is the implementation of WASM. Once this is sorted out, I’m expecting we’ll see a flood of new aircraft and features for Xbox over time. This is when you’ll begin to see the study level aircraft
We just need to wait. If that’s not an option for you, I suggest you jump over to PC. Personally for me, I went the Xbox route to get away from the gaming PCs. After 30 years of being a “FPS chaser”, I’m done. The console suits my purposes and the goodies will come in time. I currently have a mini pc that’s used for internet surfing, paying bills, and slicing files for my 3D printer.
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I just re-watched the August Dev Q&A video and Jorg Neumann admitted the 747 wasn’t great. He said they had hoped to integrate Salty Simulations modifications to replace the default Asobo 747, but were unable to, I think due to licensing around (and I may have this wrong) some open-source code.
I’ve been following the WASM development and am enrolled in the Beta testing, so we will possibly start to see it in the SU11 beta testing (but maybe not until SU12), and hopefully some of the 3rd party developers will see fit to port their creations over to the xbox msfs marketplace. I believe in one of the Dev Q&A videos they mentioned a study-level airliner would come to Xbox if they could get WASM working on Xbox.
I started wtih Xbox because it was the least expensive and simplest way to try MSFS, and because it was advertised as “the same experience” as PC. But Microsoft have created a massive contradiction: they expect 3rd-party modifications to supply what is missing, even unlocking the default files, but haven’t allowed free mods on Xbox (something Jorg Neumann keeps mentioning they want to do, but my guess is the Xbox team will deny them as long as possible for security fears), and who even knows what’s in the marketplace backlog. Also, if a sim update forces an update to a mod, but the approval process is backed up for months, it kind of defeats the whole thing, so…
Also I really want to try a multi-screen set up for immersion. So I’m waiting for the next generation of PC hardware to come to market and I may try it if there are positive reports and compatibility with MSFS. But also because I want planes that are more complete in functionality, and a PC would allow me to try Xplane. I’m in no rush.
I think you can fly the 747 perfectly fine as it is. I always fly with ATC, mind you, and they do a good job of bringing me down in time. I’ve flown a lot in the 747 and frankly the only issue I had was with the fuel system.
In short: you must have fuel in the inner tanks (2 & 3) because the APU doesn’t start if you don’t. Sadly the simulator’s own fuel load system loads the outer tanks first. Make sure you fill up 2 & 3 first, or else you may have problems on longer flights.
I don’t know if VNAV works, it should but I’m not sure. The FMC is barely filled properly (or at all), however I wouldn’t waste my time typing all of that in, I rather fly.
Also, the 747 tends to completely lose the flight plan when it reaches the approach phase (STAR). This has been a simulator bug since Sim Update 9, and affects all three default airliners, sadly the 747 is affected the worst, in my experience.
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VNAV has started to work somewhat on the 747 and 787 with the last SU10. I would like to give you more tips but I haven’t figured out all the changes yet. I’m hoping to test it out soon. On the G1000, VNAV is working now with VNAV DCT, setting descent angles, setting target altitudes. I think Asobo is working to get VNAV to work for most planes.
In the mean time, if you would like to do it the old way, there is a “3 to 1” rule of thumb that you can use that works great for airliners: 3nm of distance for 1000’ of altitude (which yields a 3° descent, just like standard ILS approaches). On a STAR, the altitude restriction you see can be used as target with that rule. If you are to cross a waypoint at 10,000’ and you are cruising at 40,000’, you need to lose 30,000’. So 90nm before that waypoint, start descent. In this case, use VS, and the rule of thumb to calculate VS for a 3° slope is ground speed/210 (ground speed 460 → 460/2=23010 → 2300fpm). Your descent profiles will always be right on.
I might do a 747 flight tonight. I’ll keep you posted of my findings on VNAV.
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Thanks for the tips, I’ve got basic flight in the stock 747 working. I’ve flown from KJFK to CYYZ a few times as tests. I used a SID, STAR, and Approach, and all 3 seemd to work with LNAV, but I had to manage the altitude using ALT instead of VNAV (which is fine, then you can follow ATC, request different altitudes, etc). I did this without live traffic or weather, just to test.
I loaded the flight plan from the World Map, including SID, STAR and Approach, and it followed the route without disappearing as you described. Is it possible that behaviour is fixed in SU10 or with recent nav data updates? Or, some routes? It seemed to auto-fill the fuel tanks, and enter the zero fuel weight, takeoff weight, etc automatically in the FMC perf page (although I didn’t compare the numbers to Simbrief… that’s next).
If I engage VNAV, it just follows the FMC flight plan - which basically just goes from departure runway straight up to cruise speed and top cruise altitude shown in the FMC Legs page (which can’t be edited, and is unrealistic), ignoring ATC instructions / restrictions, and even ignoring the 250 kt speed restriction below 10000 ft. It also keeps you at cruise altitude until the approach, expecting me to drop from FL420 down to 3000 ft in about 5 nm.
The only other annoyance so far is I can’t seem to turn on the dome light in the cockpit for night flying, however the instruments do dim and brighten enough to be workable, but it would be nice to adjust the cockpit lighting.
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Good tip, the 3 to 1 descent, I’ll try it. I’ve got a pretty good feel for it now, after a few flights of flying WAY over approach altitude. I’m too used to the GA planes at low speed!
Yes the new Working Title G1000 NXi is fantastic, I’ve been using and testing it throughout the SU10 Beta testing. Working Title is also refreshing the G3000/G5000 and CJ4 which will replace the default Asobo versions in the sim, “sometime this year” - which likely means SU11 a month from now, and I can’t wait.
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I’ll find you the dome light tonight. I’ll try loading it from scratch in the FMC directly, to try something different.
I found “Alt L” via google, which is a very, very dim light, almost like a flashlight? I had loaded cold and dark at night at KJFK, and it was pitch black in the cabin, I couldn’t find the Battery switch. ALT L was just enough to find it… (I’m on Xbox, but have a wireless keyboard and mouse in order to manage cockpit interaction with some sanity - so luckily I can use keyboard shortcuts that doen’t exist with just an Xbox controller).
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I think ALT L is the flashlight. You look for it once and now you will know where the battery and the external power switches are 
.
On the checklist, battery should be one of the first item and using the eye (on the right of the line) will help you locate it.
Very unsuccessful my trials with the VNAV so far on the 747.
I’ll keep trying. Maybe I’ll try the 787 just in case.
I found the flood light dimmers (main panel, glareshield, and pedestal respectively).
If you want, it’s somewhere under assistance, there’s an auto light feature that turns on all the interior aircraft lights when it gets dark out.
OK thanks everyone, as with all the default Asobo planes, my frustration and confusion comes from trying to figure out what Asobo didn’t bother to model. I really don’t understand their thinking - so much effort on how the default planes look - and they all look great - but so many of them have incomplete basic functionality. Looks and functionality should be at the same level as each other, otherwise it just creates contradiction and disappointment (in my opinion)
I’m guessing they intended to get it out as fast as possible to start selling, and intended to come back and finish the functionality later - but then they start building more and more symbolic models that look good, and never complete the functionality. Personally, I’d rather have (and would be more willing to pay for) fewer planes that work as expected, than a lot of planes that don’t. End rant.
I can see pretty clearly now that I’ll abandon Xbox and build a PC, so I can not only try 3rd-party, but can try other simulators.
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