Suppose we agree.. I hope we agree.. I did put a critical response to Steeler2340.
Crunchmeister said earlier he heard Q&A respond SimConnect will not be supported on XBox. That’s the reason we have this conversation in the first place.
But when Steeler2340 is right, and Asobo/MS will release both XBox and PC on a common platform, from the same sources, dropping the “obsolete” SimConnect alltogether, the consequence would be grave. Don’t get me wrong, I don’t panic. But I also realize the PC market is not as important as XBox/X will be in the future.. a lot depends on what 3th party developers are prepared to maintain for PC’s. When their product can’t communicate with XBox (at all) or require an XBox platform redevelopment and a market place license, some things are going to disappear.
To make this crystal clear: I never said that the entire SimConnect API would be abandoned! I was specifically referring to - with the given link, which I believe made this very explicit - the networking aspect of the SimConnect API.
And to make this clear in layman’s words: this refers to the existing SimConnect capability to access the Flight Simulator (the SimConnect “server”) over a network (technically speaking: a network connection over a “socket”). So the app (the SimConnect “client”) is running on one Windows computer, and the Flight Simulator (“server”) is running on another Windows computer.
I mention “Windows” explicitly because the official SimConnect client library (SimConnect.dll) is only available for Windows operating systems (so far) - any “mobile apps” (or in general: apps running on different operating systems) do have to communicate over their own “middle tier” server, which needs to be running on Windows.
So the SimConnect API itself is here to stay. The declaration of the network part to be “legacy” simply means (for us developers): do not use it going forward with new applications! And the implication is of course that for the time being those 3rd party apps need to be run on the same machine like FS 2020.
An I don’t know why you were picking up this date 7/27 again! “Legacy” means that “it will be supported for the time being” (in the sense that “it won’t go away”). If and when the networking part of SimConnect will be completely removed is anybody’s best guess, but mine would be “not before a networking replacement is there”. So we are really talking one, two or - who knows - maybe even five years from now on…
But all that is besides the point: I was merely trying to counter the FUD that was being spread in this discussion, namely “technical limitations of the XBox”, “Microsoft trying to lock everyone in” etc.
As always in life: “the easiest answer is most often the correct one”. So no “deep conspiracy” going on here: the network part of SimConnect is “simply not here yet” (and the existing one not suitable, since deprecated). Or Asobo thinks that it is not worth the trouble, as there won’t be enough demand.
And as for the “marketing aspect”, I have really no clue, and to be honest I am not too worried: if there is demand among XBox gamers for the possibility to extend FS 2020 with “client apps” (running either on the XBox itself, or on some Windows machine, communicating either via pipes (locally) or sockets (“over network”)), then Asobo (Microsoft) will for sure deliver some kind of SimConnect solution.
But from my experience (among my friends) those people who have an XBox (or console in general) have them for a reason: for “simplicity”! So my bet will be that FS 2020 will be more of a “show case” and “discover the world” kind of simulation (albeit a very serious one). Whether many XBox users will want to connect with “Little Navmap” and the like will to be seen…
Again, to make this crystal: no one is going to drop SimConnect. The network aspect of it is declared “legacy” - that’s all!
Most 3rd party apps that run on mobile platforms (or Linux/Mac, like Little Navmap) need to have their own communication protocol and “middleware server” (running on Windows) anyway, so from that point of view that’s not a big loss.
I was merely trying to give some reasonable arguments of why Asobo might - initially (?) - not put a high priority on SimConnect for XBox. Simply because its usefulness without a networking part (to be able to connect to FS 2020 on XBox from outside) is probably severely limited.
Unless of course people would start developing SimConnect clients for XBox itself - but just think about this for a moment: how would you control two applications running on the same XBox? XBox is not a “multitasking” system, from a usability point of view! You don’t have the concept of “application windows” that you can place side by side, and switching between apps is very cumbersome (I guess). So having a SimConnect client on the XBox itself is probably pointless as well.
And in case you still wonder what SimConnect is good for then: it is used as a way to communicate with FS 2020 from the outside (technically: “from a different process”). E.g. if you want to communicate with FS2020 with some special hardware, plot your flight on some map, capture flight telemetry and what not.
For all other addons which run within FS 2020 itself (scenery, aircraft, AI objects, …) you do not need SimConnect at all. You already have access to all state variables, so no need to go over the SimConnect API.
7/27 is the release of the XBox-S/X version of MSFS. And somewhere this year, they would merge the source code to have one version for both. That’s always been the announcement. I leave the rest of your submit to Crunchmeister to answer.. it was his remark about developers in the Q&A saying SimConnect not being available on XBox. Add the two together.. “legacy” and “depricated” are warnings, it actually means “obsolete”. At any time, developers may choose to rewrite or remove a library. Management could decide to leave out things. Third party developers will have to follow a rewrite with updates. You’re free to ignore marketing considerations.. but XBox customers will be fresh 2021 paying customers and they will probably be a majority soon.. 3th party developers will have their hands full porting their stuff to that new platform. Reason for concern.
Yes, I know that. But there is absolutely no correlation with when the SimConnect network functionality will be dropped (if ever).
You can “merge code” (= have a common code-basis) and still have platform-specific code (features). There is absolutely - really absolutely no reason at all to believe that Asobo / Microsoft would drop SimConnect support per se from the PC version of FS2020.
Any arguments for that are just part of some nebulous FUD campaign somehow being driven forward in this thread…
Yes. And that’s that. We have absolutely no ideas about the reasons behind this. My two points (technical limitations of the network aspect of SimConnect, different target audience) were just educated guesses as well.
But all speculations about “FS 2020 is going to drop SimConnect!”, “We’re going to be eaten by XBox users!”, “FS2020 will be dumbed down because of XBox” and what not are certainly just that: speculations (and groundless ones for sure).
Yes, I know what that those terms mean - as you have figured out yourself by now I am a developer myself
@Steeler2340 you suppose things about me that are not true. I am definitely not a member of the anti-XBox brigade. On the contrary.. the response you (and Coppersens) put against me I’ve put many times to others, who regard software development for another platform as a zero sum game, and spread panic amongst PC-users about this XBox-X release. That is not the case. I look at these things with an open mind. I think many critics have a point when they say XBox-X underperforms irt 30xx boards.. and we don’t want to loose scenery quality, because things need to be unified. See LOD-issues with the Nordic release. Critics turned out to be right..
People will have to make money, also developers. We’re not talking about Asobo/MS, most third party developers are small companies. When the big guys impose something.. you’ll have to follow.
Same here.. if you would read more of this forum you’d know I am a developer as well. But that does not add any ability to tell the thruth, in this case. All we know is what Q&A tells us.. and when Q&A sais XBox is not getting SimConnect AND PC and XBox will get a common platform and common source, that is bad news for SimConnect, in general.. I’m actually not familiar with TCP constraints, but the point made by Crunchmaster seems quite valid to me.. XBox needs to be protected, to prevent service questions. When you google XBox and Network, you’ll notice that everything that can be done is through Microsoft Store tools. We don’t really know..
I’ve announced several times on the open forum, I’ll go for XBox-X to replace my laptop when it comes out. But without SimConnect.. and without a proper freeware scenery gateway, that is without \Community imports.. I’ll reconsider.. I prefer open platforms, also for my own hobby development. I’ve used SDK and Simconnect for various vs2019 experiments. I’d hate to see things disabled, because some Asobo/MS manager would tell developers to remove functionality from the link, because the current DLL does not connect. I admit this is worse case.. and I don’t know if it is going to happen.. what I do know is that the old simmers communities are becoming a niche market. Currently, we are all in the same boat.
I understand - but the phenom of the ‘casual’ (gamer) pilot trashing the Vatsim network seems to be your “concern” and while I recognize the ‘potential’ of disrespectful/immature folks raising a ruckus on Vatsim (or PilotEdge), the controllers are generally able to police bad actors and can ‘kick them off’ (disconnect/ban) rogue pilots as needed AFAIK. Plainly said, there will always be those who do not respect the efforts of others, we have to deal with them as they appear.
One other thought - MS has announced the ‘new integrated world’ of Windows 11, XBox, and Mobile Devices (e.g. ‘smartphones’) all being playing platforms for XBox Game Pass content. If this is so, there may some sort of ‘alternative protocol’ where simconnect (per se) may ‘morph’ into some other sort of ‘smart connect’ technology where the xbox game data is accessible to 3rd party devices that can run this new ‘game pass’ platform technology - and so it may be a possibility that EFBs and other associated simulation software might access real time sim data from MSFS. Once can only surmise…
I’ll be on Xbox come the 27th, and I won’t be going anywhere near VATSIM or IVAO. MSFS has multiplayer built-in, VATSIM and IVAO are just multiplayer for nerds. No thanks.
This isn’t really about being disrespectful or immature on the network and yes these are dealt with quite easily with a .wallop that summons a supervisor. It’s about a very large chunk of console players not exactly knowing what they’re getting themselves into and the technical limitations a console brings to the VATSIM network. Take the 737NG for example, most people who fly on the network use the PMDG, ZIBO and iFly. You get none of that on an Xbox. Controllers would have to make amendments for a lot of pilots, not that big of a deal right now if an individual is not using the aforementioned but inevitably would be on a console.
I have purposely monitored this thread for days, and don’t want to get too engaged in it.
However, what you’re writing here is correct.
Despite what some users will tell you, MSFS is not directly the cause of why there has been a slight influx in misconduct on the network lately. And I can tell you that I wouldn’t really call it an influx at all. The “problems” you now see on the network are the result of tens of thousands of people registering all in the span of a couple of months. It’s simply a larger amount of new users coming together at once, coincidentally sparked by MSFS’ release. In the very first days, there were some issues regarding the sim’s compatibility, navdata problems, the weather being wrong, etc - but that was fixed swiftly.
However, VATSIM does hold some expectations both to a pilot’s, and the software’s abilities. A big issue itself is the fact that VATSIM requires you to accept both voice and text service on both ends.. Food for thought. But again, I’ll back off again now.
Agreed! There is no right or wrong way to flight sim, and there’s no right or wrong flight sim either.
It’s technically impossible to connect an Xbox to the VATSIM or IVAO networks right now, and the average Xbox gamer is highly unlikely to be interested anyway.
Indeed! Those of us who have invested in OLED TV’s cannot help but hope that XBOX X|S consoles may provide a ‘decent’ flight experience where we can connect to our massive 4K televisions and enjoy incredible eye candy that MSFS offers! And yes, we cannot help but dream of moving maps on our EFB’s on our laptop or large-screen smartphones or IPads! Worst case we are forced to order a small form-factor custom gaming PC for the purpose, or a smaller OLED TV for our computer rooms…
It makes me laugh that most people here seem to think that they are Aviation experts! Personally I know that I am not and probably I never will be! However if people want to try VATSIM, Track IR or any Navigraph app on the Xbox and the necessary technology is forthcoming from MS and Asobo, then I am all for it as it is not an exclusive club! As I understand VATSIM controllers are frequently annoyed by PC novices anyway so maybe they would become more tolerant when or if the Xbox flyers descend on them!
