SimWorks Studios Kodiak 100 one the best aircraft for MSFS 2020

They do this when reloading the aircraft in the SDK as well. Sometimes with unpredictable, even humorous results.

Particularly when accidentally doing some terraforming.

It’s is odd. FSX never did such things. But then it never had such complex elevation data to contend with. Still, I landed an F14 the other night and the tires sunk into the runway surface by a few cm. Wasn’t just a visual thing - couldn’t turn the nose-wheel! Must have been a hot day…

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I’ve just been testing some ATC bugs, so had all my Community stuff removed. Instead of the 414 the default plane I got assigned was the Asobo C208, and guess what, it plopped on to the runway with a bang! :slight_smile:

Just re-testing with other planes. The main difference I see between the both Caravans, the Kodiak, and the 414 is the 414 seems to spawn in with its nose gear compressed, so it doesn’t drop on to the runway when it spawns, but raises its nose slightly.

I wonder if that is what we are actually seeing, that on some planes the nose gear is elevated, rather than the main gear.

I’ve also just confirmed that it appears to be grossly exaggerated by FS Realistic running in the background, which makes it appear much worse than it actually is. I’m becoming less enamoured with that software as time goes on, turning things off bit by bit.

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On the subject of spawning droppages, I think it might be helpful to note the airport and parking spot number for an exact comparison.

I just uploaded a short video of my spawn into Hana airport (PHHN, parking 6) this morning. If the shake in my video is typical of what you are referring to, then I must confess that yes, I think I also experience this with other aircraft and other airports, too.

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From my experience implementing Start Anywhere in Location Manager for MSFS: Start Anywhere - YouTube I think they’re just using the base teleporting to set aircraft wherever they need to be. If the altitude is right on the money it can be pretty seemless, but more often than not it only needs to be off a touch and you get the TP spawn shimmy as it adjusts. Unsure if FSRealistic is amping this up or not.

Unrelated to the Kodiak but this actually looks like a very very promising and useful addon at a very reasonable price (not to mention the excellent presentation in the above video). I’ll definitely be giving it a try. I wish MSFS could have such features by default, but since it doesn’, oh well…

Interesting!
On the subject of spawning the Kodiak 100, I wonder if “Start Anywhere” would have any effect on its spawning into the “To>select arrival>runway” option of the World Map setup?

I frequently use this option to practice my final approaches and landings.

I have noticed that unlike many of my other aircraft, the Kodiak 100 typically spawns into an almost immediate nose-down attitude that requires somewhat frantic application of power and controls to counteract.

Has anyone else noticed this strangeness? Perhaps this anomoly is related to the dropping onto the runway action noted by “hobanagerik”, previously.

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That drop spawn is not isolated to the Kodiak as I have since found, but it was being exaggerated by FSR for some reason, in a way that wasn’t in other planes.

The amount it drops seems to vary from plane to plane, though, and in the case of the Cessna 414 it doesn’t drop at all, and instead rises as if its nose wheel suspension were already compressed.

This is where FSR is actually useful in that regard. Set sounds, and movement for both nose wheel, and main gear touchdown to have very high movement, and ensure the sounds are different for each.

When you spawn in, this will indicate which wheels are spawning above the ground. In the case of the Kodiak this will lead to very violent shaking, and a loud nose wheel sound as if you had a very hard landing.

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I decided to make a short video of the difference between a few planes, with regard to this dropping thing. Slew mode works wonders here, as it appears to illustrate the issue while being able to see its effects from the outside.

First I show the Asobo 172, then the FSW 414, and finally the Kodiak. You will see the 172, and 414 have no bounce as their wheel appears to spawn on the ground, but the Kodiak does not. Although in the 172’s case its rear wheels do not appear to actually touch the ground as far as the physical model shows, but the numbers in the config give the right behaviour.

Something else I noticed odd about this, and this may be me reading the SDK wrong, the first number when sets what that contact point is.

https://docs.flightsimulator.com/html/mergedProjects/How_To_Make_An_Aircraft/Contents/Files/Flight_Model/Wheels_And_Contact_Points.htm?rhhlterm=wheel&rhsearch=wheel

When adding contact points, you should set up the wheels first and for those you’ll need to set up all - or most - of the following parameters:

  • Type - Sets the type of contact point.

Looking at the Kodiak config, it doesn’t appear to have a right wheel, but two left wheels.

point.0 = 1, 2.507979, 0, -5.619, 820, 0, 0.52, 55, 0.165, 1.7, 0.9, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 1.1
point.1 = 1, -8.512286, -5.857396, -5.338427, 1800, 1, 0.78, 0, 0.164, 3, 0.1, 0, 0, 2, 0, 0, 1.1
point.2 = 1, -8.512286, 5.857396, -5.338427, 1800, 2, 0.78, 0, 0.164, 3, 0.1, 0, 0, 2, 0, 0, 1.1
point.3 = 2, -6.909738, 22.351222, 3.639479, 300, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 6, 0, 0, 1
point.4 = 2, -6.909738, -22.351222, 3.639479, 300, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 6, 0, 0, 1
point.5 = 2, -26.090442, -0.000001, 2.661936, 720, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 4, 0, 0, 1
point.6 = 17, 7.569629, 0, 0.010693, 300, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 4, 0, 0, 1
point.7 = 2, -26.699076, 0, 10.484106, 300, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 7, 0, 0, 1
point.8 = 2, -10.620009, 0, -2.291439, 300, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 4, 0, 0, 1
point.9 = 2, 1.380013, 0, -2.268678, 300, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 4, 0, 0, 1
point.10 = 2, 1.380013, 0, -2.268678, 300, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 4, 0, 0, 1

The 414 is configured the same though, but it doesn’t look right to me, no pun intended. It’s possible they aren’t literal as per the image above though, but denoted somewhere else in the sim that I cannot see.

I did have a play around with altering the second value for the nose wheel, and I was able to have the wheel settle above or below the ground, but still have that little drop that it does.

Why do you say it has two left wheels? Looks like the third value is the lateral position and point.1 is negative, point.2 positive which would be left and right. Maybe you edited the values before taking the screen print.

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As I say I’m probably reading it wrong, but the syntax for those points is:

point.number = class, long_pos, lat_pos, vert_pos, crash_velocity, braking_enum, wheel_radius, steer_angle, static_compression, max_to_static_compression_ratio, dapting_ratio, extend_time, retract_time, sound_enum, airpseed_limit, airspeed_damage, exponential_constant

So the first number after the “=” sign is the class or type.

So I’m looking at the first three lines that have 1 immediately after the “=” sign, and reading those as settings that define the nose gear. Indeed altering the second number “2.505979” does alter the position the nose wheel sits at. Though why there are three is unclear to me. At first I thought it somehow defined the inner, and outer edges of the wheel but the SDK defines a wheel as a point only.

Then I see another three sets of values, but this time the second value is “2”, so I logically assumed that this was the left main gear, as per the image. But there isn’t a “3” for the right gear, which then made me think perhaps these numbers are arbitrarily assigned, or in a way that you cannot see with the release version of the plane.

I swear I have almost as much fun tinkering as flying. :slight_smile:

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The 1 you’re mentioning defines first three rows as wheel contact points:

point.0 = Nose
point.1 = Left. (-5.8)
point.2 = Right (5.8)

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Right, so I was misreading that class thing as a literal designation as 1 being such and such, and so on. That makes sense.

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The first 4 values are:

Class
Longitudinal
Lateral
Vertical

so the value that affects the nose wheel height would be the fourth one but I’d expect the drop you’re seeing on spawn in is probably caused by a spawn in position set somewhere else.

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So they all compress the gear when spawning in. Which makes sense. But the Kodiak as you show has that slight drop.

More to the point - you have a tail number showing! I lost them on all aircraft after SU12.

Well I’ve managed to practically eliminate the drop you get by altering “lat_pos” only to the following, highlighted in bold.

point.0 = 1, 2.507979, 0, -6.0, 820, 0, 0.52, 55, 0.165, 1.7, 0.9, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 1.1
point.1 = 1, -8.512286, -5.857396, -5.5, 1800, 1, 0.78, 0, 0.164, 3, 0.1, 0, 0, 2, 0, 0, 1.1
point.2 = 1, -8.512286, 5.857396, -5.5, 1800, 2, 0.78, 0, 0.164, 3, 0.1, 0, 0, 2, 0, 0, 1.1

There’s only the tiniest of drops now, with no audible component at all, but it does have one unwanted side effect.

That looks like maybe a mismatch between values, and the model. Or rather perhaps the wrong values were adjusted during build, instead option for values that made the plane look right in the world but instead causing it to drop to the ground. The values I entered look better, and would be perfect if the entire model could be shifted down by a similar amount.

The 0 is the lat_pos. You’ve correctly edited the fourth value which is the vertical position.

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I’ve also had a play with this:

reference_datum_position = 5.82, 0, 0

Increasing this to 7.3-7.4 gets the rear wheels back on the ground, but the bang comes back as it drops. A careful balance between the two perhaps?

Even after adjusting all four values, its relatively easy to eliminate that bounce, but the plane still hovers slightly above the surface, which I have seen the main gear in the Asobo 172 do.

There are a lot of interconnected things to reference datum, including lights, engine position, and weight and balance figures. I wouldn’t play with it and expect a definitive result without a lot of cross reference and testing.

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Agreed. The last two I just had a play with are these:

static_pitch = 2.5
static_cg_height = 5.34

These look much safer, as they are only referenced when in the hangar, when flight physics are not active. And I suspect these are a contributor, as when you alter these, it seems to determine where the plane spawns when you toggle slew mode. A higher number for cg_height, and the plane drops to the floor. Two low, and it bounces upwards.

I suspect the difference between these static values, and the actually physics based values for the contact points are what are causing this bounce, or at least contributing to it.

Yes, I’ve all but eliminated the bounce, without touching the contact points at all, solely setting those static values. The bounce was the difference between the resting state of the plane, and the height, and pitch it spawns in at, which is also used when entering, and exiting slew mode.

Try these values.

static_pitch = 1.1
static_cg_height = 5.1

With a bit more finessing I might be able to eliminate it completely. There is still some small amount of travel on the nose gear suspension, but I’m happy with this. The wheels remain on the ground too, so it’s a win win.

In theory this should be applicable to any plane that has this admittedly minor issue.

I’ll try this out later on the 414, which doesn’t bounce, but spawns in with a nose low attitude, causing it to rise up on its nose gear suspension. Increasing the static_pitch a a few points should eliminate that too.

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