I request to add the feature to let the sidestick move when trimming the aircraft.
This is how it is done in the real aircraft and the only way to see how the SR22 is trimmed.
Highly important to add this!
Since your joystick doesnât move when trimming, the virtual joystick and your joystick would be out of sync.
Thatâs a basic problem with all sims and âstandardâ joysticks.
Without a Brunner yoke or something similar this is simply not possible.
Actually it is possible.
I worked on a SR20 a while ago and managed to implement this feature via clever XML code from another dev.
Of course it would not match your hardware but this is not that important, trust me. There will be a little bit of way the hardware will go without any change of attitude when you are fully trimmed either direction but it is not as disturbing as you think.
And it is the only way for a realistic and proper trim indication.
1 Like
My joy is a FFB one (G940), so it moves (I use the âSimFFB applicationâ) if I trim and so moves the Sidestick in the cockpit. My problem is that moving a trim hut on a Sidestick in the sim in different directions does not change the trim settings.
We are aware of implementations like that and indeed considered doing that, but it has some bad knock on effects in VR which require the stick position to match the actual sim-side control deflection.
2 Likes
I completely understand that you want to create a product where no user is left out.
But if you could find some way to make it happen, that would be quite good!
One suggestion that comes to my mind: Make it a toggleable feature. Donât know if it is worth creating a full tablet in that case for one option only but maybe via a hidden clickspot on the sideyoke ^^
Default: ON and you can turn it OFF via the clickspot if you want to fly in VR without hardware.
1 Like
The elevator trim in the SR22 works by adjusting the neutral position of the compression spring in the yoke system. You actually donât move the yoke but the neutral position. This is important as there is no hydraulic or so powering the controls but steel wires like in mostly every small conventional airplane. That means the yoke position changes as soon as there is airstream around the elevator. Standing on the ground it would be fully down and the yoke fully forward, speeding up it would move back. This would be without the hand holding it. Of course during takeoff you DO hold it.
But you do this in every airplane. So nothing will move, actually. When you trim nothing will move around in the real cockpit, all you do is adjust the neutral point of the force spring cartridge for the currently required elevator position. That is how every trim works, be it a spring trim or moving flettner trim tab.
What youâd like to see is a general change of how trim works in the sim. In reality the neutral point shifts and the yoke comes back more or less depending on the speed youâre trimmed for. But in every plane, not only the SR22. In the sim this generally doesnât happen because the trim works differently. Trim basically adds a value to the control input, it doesnât change the deflection of the control itself as it would in reality.
I agree with you.
Of course that is how the trim works in the real SR22.
But, as you already figured, we are thinking about converting such a movement into the sim. And this sadly not that easy and 1 to 1 possible as in real life.
Although a general overhaul of the trim logic in the sim would be a neat idea we still can create a custom trim logic for a single aircraft, like the SR22.
In my opinion the only way to make this work is by coupling the elevator & aileron deflection to the Sideyoke deflection. Trimming the neutral position would change the elevator deflection as it would therefore change the yoke deflection.
The only issue on the SR22 trim is:
As far as i know would a full trim nose down/up not correspond to the maximum push/pull movement that the yoke allows. Meaning, after trimming to the maximum you are still able to move the yoke a bit further.
Implementing this is the difficult part on this one.
This design was also considered, but has some serious faults:
- Thereâs not really a clear way to map the user input to this bias. Taking the extreme example of the trim fully nose down, letâs say the neutral point is at 90% stick forward. There are two (bad) options available:
- Keep the mapping linear. This means that 0-10% on the user input maps to 90-100% SR22 stick and then over 10% user input does nothing. 0 to -100% user input then would translate to 90% to -10% SR22 stick, but now there is no way for the user to ever get the last 90% of back stick that is still available, as theyâve run out of travel on their real world control.
- Map over the entire remaining distance. This means that 0-100% on the user input would map to 90-100% on the SR22 stick, and 0 to -100% on the user input would map from 90% all the way to -100% on the SR22 stick. This means that the forward direction has almost no control sensitivity (maybe not a big deal with so little simulated travel left) and the backward direction is now twice as sensitive (nearly the entire elevator travel for the same user control input, just half the stick, which is very bad)
- The sim wouldnât understand this system so all assistance displays, HUDs, and AI pilot would be very broken and thereâs no way of telling them about this system as they can only read the sim trim
- VR control would not work as the position of the stick would not match the expected sim inputs
Really, even considering how one would make this system work on the sim-side the same concerns remain, and the true challenge here is just the simple fact that the user controls are unable to be biased like this with force. So right now, for a simulator in general, SR22T aside, this is still probably the best possible design compromise.
1 Like
Thinking about the first option you presentedâŠ
Having it that way, that the pushing has no effect above the 10% hardware push does not seem like a major issue to be honest. Of course this totally unrealistic but for most hardware that is the way it works. And I think most other conventional planes using this method have the same âissueâ. It is sad that there is no other way around this but better than having no trim indication, imo.
To be honest, i canât imagine the impacts of this on HUDs, AI, etc. but if you say that is totally breaking it, I can understand that there will never be a way⊠(but maybe in FS2024 with reworked systems??)
About the VR issue: wouldnât my idea of having a toggle, to enable this specific trim - yoke movement, work? Never got too deep into the XML coding but maybe there is a way to put two ways of the trim system working into it and then have them activate by the user via a clickspot.
Youâre missing the second half of that description, though, which is that pulling can only get you to -10% in the back direction. The user can no longer get the -10% to -100% part of the back stick travel, which is nearly all of the nose up part of the elevator travel, because they are out of hardware control travel.
1 Like
Ahh, now i get your point. That wasnât to clear to me.
BummerâŠ
All these details, are you working on the new SR22Ts for the next SimUpdate?
Was just curious if theyâre going to update the âAircraft Selectorâ for the SR22, its name âSR22â instead of âSR22Tsâ and all its flight stats are wrong on the panel. It seems to perform near the real SR22Ts in the beta but that just seems confusing.
We are aware of the description bug and it has been logged, yes. 
Fantastic 
I know it doesnât matter at all but it irks me for no reason, haha.
Appreciate all you do. Been playing around in the new SR22Ts in the beta and itâs a blast!
4 posts were split to a new topic: SU14 Beta SR22 T and Boris Audio Works Add-On