SU12 Q&A about turbulence and thermal, a joke or not?

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Hi there!

Casual users or others who want to fly into thunderstorm or Cb without turbulence, pass this long “novel”, don’t read it lol because sadly based on top votes and wishes this post will be boring for the majority!

Well it is hard to be heard by Asobo even if they really seem to hear about a crucial topic in Aviation (and in Flight Simulation) which is THE WEATHER AND THE DANGER IN THE SKIES!!! One of the first important part to learn in aviation for student pilots and I’m sure that Asobo can’t ignore it.

What’s going on (again!) with THE LIVE WEATHER in msfs after SU12?

Today was the perfect day to verify what was said clearly in the Q&A. “you will get extreme turbulence in realistic mode” (based on data live weather in severe conditons)
Today it was a storm in the north of France, they even talked about it on news.,All VFR aircraft were grounded, a part of IFR flights have to fly to alternate airports or were just canceled, in Xplane 12 the same a C172 was unflyable because of huge convective and so on… Unsafe conditions!!!

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In msfs it was as usual “FLYING ON THE RAILS” into storm, CB, TS, TCU!

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I believe that those who complaints laudly for a while should be happy because of"turbulence is overdone", now they won, indeed step by step Asobo deleted turbulence (except the well done turb assiociated to terrain/relief) in order to please the majority who is of course the best expert in aviation (a little sarcasm don’t hurt anybody lol) same for the icing effects, no a single one in TS, CB, walou, rien, nada, nothing! See on the real chart the presence of icing conditions! The same flight in Xplane 12 ends to a stall because of severe icing in CB and huge convective, not perfect but it can be called “Realistic Mode” if we give some respect to realism.

I’m not the only one to be speechless based on what was mentioned by Seb in the last Q&A and the gap between his words, his demonstration and reality in SU12!!! Everyone can see online about how turbulence and up/downdraft were supposed to be implemented which raised a lot of expectations and joy.

See the video at 10:55, Asobo cleary says and shows that turbulence and unlimited up/downdraft but it is not true in Live Weather at all!!! They use “preset weahter” for the trcik, how come?!
at 16:47, he says something like: "people who wants to fly in extreme turbulence in flight, find a place on earth (I did today at LFQQ in storm, CB, TCU) “you will have real large cells and you’ll get extreme turbulence”

That statement is just wrong, it is totally false!!! I mean they defintely should know that they don’t say the truth right, how come otherwise, why asking beta testers then? , they are the devs, so why raising hopes and joy in this precious area for nothing at the end of the day, check it out:

(3) March 2023 Developer Live Stream - YouTube

Therefore what means “Realistic Mode” on their side?
Why claiming online on video that “don’t go there with your Cessna” because of turbulence and severe impact/effects what “realism”?
It’s defintely doesn’t work in Live Weather before releasing SU12, as a “beta SU tester” I said it, we did!

So raising such expectations for nothing brings automatically some frustrations and huge disapointment, it is better to say “look guys, we changed our mind, the majority of users do not care about realism in simulation based on the “excellent” wish-list that finally leads us to the ultimate truth about Aviation in msfs better than the advices or feedback of real pilots and beta testers. The majority want to see if their house is at the right place, eye-candy first, for realism we’ll see later, maybe in SU18” let’s put a lol on it.

I thought (and I stil want to believe) that msfs was planned to become the best realistic flight sim ever so what if the weather is not considered with the minimum respect required to talk about realism …“Realitic Mode” which is just a hidden “Arcade Mode” as a matter of fact above all reliable opinions.
Now I believe that we are a small group who digs here for realism in msfs. It is so difficult to raise votes for this purpose because of the majority who is always right (not sure at all) The potential of msfs to become the best flight sim ever becomes very frustrating somehow.
We are in 2023 still no turb in clouds, no correct thermal, icing effects have been removed etc etc what that is in SU 12?
Since January 2021:

No cloud turbulence, no weather turbulence, planes seem to be on rails - Bug Reports & Wishlist / Wishlist - Microsoft Flight Simulator Forums

How many times we have to recall that he weather is so important in Aviation if we dare talking about realism for the sake of honesty and using “realistic Mode” checked what does it mean in their semantic here??
The weather, it is important in Flight Simulation (simulation means simulating the real things as much as possible technically!) Weather is such a part of flight simming, Xplane/Laminar understand it so well for those who want to train at home to plan the VFR flight plan based on weather (I did many times before my real VFR flight plan, it’s fun guys!
This is also the reason why we go to flight school before getting our licence, we don’t need a majority to think at our place, we just need to learn how it goes in the sky ( Again learning is fun before complaining ) … it will be great if msfs could be a part of that training, to enjoy, to learn, to simulate how we do in real, how to create a flight plan based on METAR/TAF.

So flying through storm with a C172 without any convective, icing conditions, any danger, etc is that the way msfs call “realistic”?

If I was a moderator on Q&A i will dare to ask this question, is it that bad in this sensitive world? Really it demands any sort of special courage lol just asking nicely without sarcasm but they don’t, moderators seems to be so casual, we live in such a beautiful world (kidding) it is not about being offensive it is about asking legitimate questions to raise solid answers from Asobo and if they turn around, ask them again until we got something, less questions maybe but for good answers. Since January 2021 we tried to raise votes for turbulence in clouds, thermals, convective, everything based only on adervitising Asobo youtube videos, check online there are still there, same for the last Q&A

Advertising, see minute 9:00 … again it is false as a matter of fact, so what does it means from Asobo to raise such expectations? We are in 2023. It means something.

(3) Feature Discovery Series Episode 3: Aerodynamics - YouTube

Otherwise in CAVOK and other weather conditions I enjoy, it’s funny, I like the turbulence in approach due to the terrain etc (even better than Xplane in this area msfs wins) but if I want to “fly” like I’ve done for years in real life, then I go on IVAO with Xplane to join me not because I want to see my house on the right place or an elephant in my garden hugging a monkey but because of realism matters in the virtual skies…

So please dear team, internet keep everything that was said, just keep your promises, I guess we deserve it.

Tks :wink:

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Live weather service probably just down temporarily. Nothing has been removed…

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Nope maybe for today, but Live weather was working on my side and so since SU12.
Maybe some issues here and there but since BETA and the release date of the official version SU, as we noticed there is no such turb in clouds and else, nothing

PS also Icing effects was removed since SU x? (don’t remember) because of loud complaints so instead of fixed it, Asobo just deleted the feature, only cosmetic ice, try to fly in icing conditions Pitot OFF, nothing happen, it’s arcade, same for the ice accumulation as a matter of fact.

See our votes if you want to add yours, you’re in advance so welcome! :wink:

Improve icing physics on aircraft - Bug Reports & Wishlist / Wishlist - Microsoft Flight Simulator Forums

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Just tried to fly into a thunderstorm with the Cessna 172 G1000 (live weather, turbulence realistic) and got a proper shaking. Even caught an updraft at some point (around 800 - 1000 ft/min), needed to point nose to -10 degrees to keep it more or less level.

So I´m not seeing a 'flying on rails". If the effect I was seeing was anywhere close to real world I cannot judge (and flying in the soup made it hard to determine if I was right below a CB, which probably should have a more pronounced updraft).

Puzzling that (as many times) different users see different things in the sim. That, to me , is one of the greatest misteries…

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As has been stated several times in several discussions, weather is there mostly for visibility reasons (i.e. making landings more difficult 'coz you can’t see the runway) and also cosmetics (read: fluffy clouds).

As long as you can fly your C172 directly into a hurricane and escape unharmed 100% of the time, weather effects will have very little realism. Which subsequently makes weather planning, checking SIGMETs, avoiding CBs etc all moot.

Clearly one of the weakest points of this sim, especially for those interested in it. The rest will probably create another thread after the next SU, thanking Asobo because clouds now look even fluffier.

MSFS should just copy whatever Xplane does in this area.

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Though I’m not a real life pilot, I’ve read many books about real aviation and the consensus for GA is: you do not fly into a thunderstorm. Period.

I remember reading a story in Paul Craig’s The Killing Zone (or was it Robert Buck’s Weather Flying?) of a small Cessna going into a thunderstorm. The next thing ground spectators saw of it was the airplane falling out of control with one wing missing, with obvious fatal results. Another story was a first person account by someone in a Cessna who somehow made it out alive, but not before he found himself flying upside down and backwards.

Although MSFS does not “fly on rails” indeed, comparing the above examples with the sim shows there’s some work to be done.

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I don’t think they can. Or at least they won’t want to even if they could. There’d be too many complaints from people calling the game “unflyable” I 'spekt.

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I challenge anyone to find a thundercloud that looks like a thundercloud with which to test if thunderstorm turbulence is realistic. They are all far too tame-looking. Way too short (about 30% of a real mid-latitude thunderstorm’s height, even less than that of an equatorial thunderstorm). Like TCUs that just reached the mature stage and aren’t developing any further (meaning they should cycle or dissipate). The clouds we see don’t have enough updraft to look like I’d expect more than moderate turbulence, maybe a little severe. Little baby storms. IRL, there are a lot more “keep away” signs (save for embedded TS).

But I don’t know if the modeling power exists to correctly simulate the dynamics of a thunderstorm, much less a cluster of them and how they interact. Hail, tilted updrafts, mesocyclones. Finding the interface between primarily updraft and primarily downdraft has got to be a chore. It’d more than likely have to be pretty deterministic and “on-rails.” Like a binary “you’re in a thunderstorm, so here’s a 2,000 fpm climb, and now here’s a 5,000 fpm descent” switch. Maybe I’m overthinking it and it’s not even necessary. It’s gotten better lately, but I imagine there’s a lot of work to be done in this regard, and I agree it needs to be done.

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These kind of posts always makes me sad, as I don’t think there is a need to use elitism or be mocking in your tone to voice an opinion…

I also think you have misunderstood the changes to turbulence, they added an option to lower it, which I think is a great solution in order to cater for different opinions.

Weather is something they are working on to improve all the time, it’s incredible complex and something that you basically can always improve upon. Hence your reference to Xplane seems really odd, as their weather solution is really behind MSFS…

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Perhaps as far as graphics go. Because as far as how much weather affects actual flying and how dangerous it can become, there is absolutely no comparison between the two. Unless people keep asking for more, we’ll always have harmless nice looking fluffy clouds and nothing else.

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Ok…I ran the question through the internet facility and found this:

MSFS2020 uses a dynamic weather system that incorporates data from real-world weather sources to simulate weather conditions accurately. This system creates real-time weather conditions that mimic the weather in the real world, including cloud formations, wind, rain, and temperature.

Xplane12 also features a weather system that utilizes real-world data from various sources to create a realistic simulation of weather conditions. The system allows for real-time weather updates and includes features like turbulence and icing effects, which add to the realism of the simulation.

Ultimately, the realism of the weather depiction in both MSFS2020 and Xplane12 will depend on a variety of factors, including the accuracy and quality of the data sources used, the complexity of the weather simulation algorithms, and the overall quality of the software. It may be worth trying out both simulators and comparing their weather depiction yourself to determine which one you find more realistic.

As for me, I flew the default Cessnas into the heart of a storm and in Xplane12 I didn’t return as my aeroplane came apart in my hands. In MSFS I sailed happily through into the blue skies beyond! I suggest you try it yourself.

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My friend, 800-1000ft/min updraft as you mentionned is nothing special in the real world aviation as it could even occur in CAVOK so imagine what could it happen in these terms in TS, TCU or just CB as 5000ft/min to 10 000ft/min convectives (up/downdraft) which is very dangerous, even lethal for GA as it is for big birds (Xplane does the job very well in this aera)
This is the reason why we have the duty to avoid those cells in the real world for safety matters.
This is also the reason why I use the common expression 'flying on rails" in msfs about severe weather conditions

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Please, this was before, not currentyl! I was one of the first among others to complain about it, my posts are still there on xp.org forum, this issue was in XP beta!!!
Big time bugs that are fixed now since a while!
So this statement belongs to the past, you can even check by yourself to valide this point. :wink:

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Just wondering; SU12 introduced an assistance setting for turbulence, and at stock it’s set to ‘easy’, have you set this to ‘realistic’ in that section of the settings?

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Why is that odd? Could you explain to me, I’m open :wink: Could you justify with empirical facts instead of opinion how the xplane weather solution is really behind msfs? (no war here between both of the sim please, just facts) Please go ahead.

My post does not concern our own opinions as “I like msfs better than Xplane” or “Xplane is super-professional, msfs is a game” That is not the spirit I mean.
I know that some users get hurt because of this word “msfs” in Xplane forums or here “xplane” on msfs forum, really it’s not in the reason that I created this thread. Let’s stay on the topic.
It’s about turbulence in bad weather conditions that is defintely missing in msfs and what we could expect in severe weather conditions based on what was promised “years ago” and clearly said in Q&A etc (again: as a matter of fact!)

If the reference to Xplane is odd for you, that’s right but it’s not enough to mention this way without solid facts… To make it reliable and solid, please launch Xplane find METAR/TAF bad unsafe weather conditons, fly your C172 in TS, TCU, CB and you’ll see easily that it’s not that odd as a reference … For one reason it shows you that it could be very dangerous to fly a light or big bird in real life in severe weather conditons, is it that odd?
What seems odd to me is to fly in any weather conditions in msfs without any danger, any convective in CB (by the way, turbulence in msfs have nothing to do with clouds, CB, TS and Severe weather conditions!!!)… This is what I call “flying on rails in msfs” no matter if we have weak turb or maybe CAT (I say maybe not sure if CAT are represented in msfs, it is hard to pimpoint that kind of turb) So having a 500/1500ft/min updraft for instance, or even very well done turb due to relief/mountains etc (again “very well done in msfs better than Xplane”!) has definitely nothing to do with bad or severe weather conditions.

By the way, I have a doubt now, have you ever gave a try to Xplane (last update weather) in severe weather conditions? If you say that it’s odd then you have something to bring more than I know and I’m open to read you.
However if you read the first post I’m talking here about Turbulence and Danger in the skies. So yes it is definitely there in Xplane (facts) and it’s not implemented in msfs (facts) .
Have you seen the videos that I shared in the first post? I don’t make it up.
Have you read the post to which I refered to?
If you have some time, just take a look :wink:

Realistic Dangerous Weather - Physics Simulation - Bug Reports & Wishlist / Wishlist - Microsoft Flight Simulator Forums

I’m not a glider pilot, just a “classic” one but I’ve learned some good stuff here from glider riders and even simmers who know better than me about thermals, jyeap it is missing in msfs as it’s not great in Xplane as welll (Fortunatelly they promised in Q&A a while ago that they will bring in SU12 thermals but sorry it’s not there as we should expect based on what was said…
Anyways, enjoy the reading and give your vote only if you consider that it is worth it and if you feel concerned by realism in msfs of course, we just try to get heard as much as possible not easy with the majority lol … ! :slightly_smiling_face:

Thermals, Up & Downdrafts - Realism Update/ Airmass Simulation - Bug Reports & Wishlist / Resolved - Microsoft Flight Simulator Forums

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Of course my friend, “Realistic Mode” is checked, that was the reason of this topic and other ones made by some users who feel concerned about realism.
It doesn’t really change anything that much if you do fly in “realism” mode as I tried to explain in some posts and here, also as others tried to do so.
We even gave a try to raise the issue in the last Q&A but we failed. The moderator didn’t notice 5 to 10 quesitons about this topic, so she didn’t ask, unfortunatelly.

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That’s right hhh! :wink:

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By the way don’t be “sad”, really no need for that, read me well please, I have too much respect for Flight SImulators and simmers (casual one or not, who cares?) I was a simmer for years before flying for real, and see I’m still such a simmer with even more passion for simming!..
Without FS2004, without this old flight sim, nobody would have bet on me for flying real birds from where I come from… On my side I would never believed one day to fly real birds, I worked hard for that, spent a lot of money to make that dream comes true thanks to the meeting with FS2004… So elitism or else there is no place for that here or in my heart … trust me.

This is the reason I’m happy that msfs 2020 brings thousands of kids in front of their screen, asking to have a yoke for Christmas or birthday, or other people young and old, because maybe it will give some hopes and vocations to become a pilot in real life.

I’m sure that there are future captains around here who will fly more than I’ve done with better flying skills, no doubt.

There’s a place for everybody in msfs, in Xplane as well, no hierachy behind our screen, casual simmers (nothing pejorative), pilots, harcoresimmers, we share the same virtual skies, we enjoy the same passion… This is the real tone behind my words in my posts, in my heart.

Same for Xplane, same for msfs! Critics do not mean “dislike”, it is not binary at all, on the contrary, it means waooo I love that stuff, it could be better and how could it be better as much as possible technically? No need for confusion.

All my respect for both of the sim, to Asobo, to Laminar, that are still create a lot of inspiration around the world!
Also as a grounded pilot since two years, I’m so happy to have both of the sim in my home cockpit because I miss flying a lot in my real life, and we are maybe thousands like that.
So you, myself, pilots and non-pilots, casual simmers, just people who love flying we have msfs and xplane, how cool is that!!! …

That’s great, I feel like a kid in front of my sim and I’m still amazed like the first day when I discovered Flight Simulator 2004, really…

:wink:

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I took the Kodiak out in a 40kt wind the other day and it was basically unflyable. I got thrown around like a toy.

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Sure and of course that 40kts crosswind should be unflyable with a Kodiak, even less than that based on the checklist if I remember correctly.
It is well represented in msfs but it has nothing to do with turbulence in CB, severe weather conditions, or the topic.

But it’s good to mention that msfs deals better and better with winds, I think the devs made a good job in this area, same for the gust winds that were missing for a couple of SU, it’s great to have them back! :wink:

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