I’m not suggesting it’s not controlled.
That’s new to me.
But, anyway, I’ve only got a couple of hundred hours, I assume you’re more experienced than I am. I’m only explaining how I fly, that I don’t experience floating in the sim, and nobody complains at all about my landings. I don’t mean to brag, but, I’ve flown with 3 instructors over the last month, and all of them were impressed with how good my landings were. But, I’m not an instructor, and the most complex plane I’ve ever flown is a a PA-28-180 Arrow, and I owned a Piper Cherokee for quite a while.
Maybe this was a type specific explanation.
Neither e.g. a TBM, King Air or Citation land stalled, so why don’t they bounce?
Are you talking in the sim or in real life?
And it depends on your definition of stalled. If it’s landed, then, it’s not moving fast enough or at the correct AOA to fly. If the plane wants to fly, it’s not stalled.
Somebody up above actually explained the bouncing condition better than I did. As I understand it, if you’re going too fast, you hit the ground but the plane still wants to fly, so it lifts up. It starts to go up, the velocity vector and AOA are such that the plane loses lift again and falls back, then the process repeats itself.
That’s my understanding, could be wrong.
As I said, I’ve only got a couple of hundred hours in light planes, and a smattering of of aerodynamics courses that I took a long time ago. I’m only repeating what I’ve been taught from multiple sources. Then again, maybe I’m playing the telephone game with what I was taught.
Both.
I disagree with willisxdc’s explanation as well.
Since the main wheels are behind the CG and center of lift (tricycle gear), the touchdown can’t cause any pitch up. Usually it’s even the opposite.
Talking about Arrows and bouncing…that’s a reason for a bounce…
It’s not about causing a pitch up necessarily, (although often the pitch up is what the pilot does reflexively trying to flair the plane again, but that just makes it worse), but , it has to do with the velocity vector, which suddenly changes from essentially level as the plane hits, or going down since the pilot is likely forcing the plane down to the runway, to bouncing up. Given the now upward total velocity vector, the forward vector becomes shorter (the plane is going forward slower), IOW the plane slows down (without pitching up), falls to the runway again because it doesn’t have as much lift, but still with too much speed, and it just does it again.
Best thing to do in that situation, is to go around and try again.
And, a long time ago, on my first long solo cross-country that condition happened to me. And when my instructor explained the condition to me a couple of weeks ago, I put two and two together and it made sense. I was flying into an unfamiliar strip doing one of my touch and goes, there was a heavy cross-wind, I came in a little too hot, and I bounced it twice and said screw this and went around it did the touch and go correctly the second time.
Forcing the plane down is the opposite of flaring.
Assuming your vector theory is correct and applicable, why don’t aircraft bounce when touching down at much higher speeds than their stall speed?
have you ever seen an aircraft carrier landing? 
The bounce condition is too fast, the wing (plane) still wants to fly.
For the condition you’re asking about, losing lift can happen in a variety of ways, hence why airliners have all the slats and spoilers and flaps and fowler flaps they have. To bleed the lift and put the wing in a stalled condition as it lands.
A stalled wing does not necessarily have to be falling out of the sky, it just has to not have enough lift to fly.
Slats and flaps considerable increase lift, they certainly don’t help bleeding lift.
(spoilers aren’t used in flight)
Airliners are far away from stalling at touchdown.
When do the spoilers go up? As soon as you land.
Yes, they are, but as they touchdown, they go immediately into reverse thrust, and slow the plane so it no longer wants to fly.
I’m sure you’ve been in an airliner when it’s bounced down the runway a couple of times as it slows (usually in a heavy cross-wind in the pilot’s defense).
The perfect example is setting up for slow flight, just above stall speed. You can fly along level at 3 knots above stall, and as soon as maybe a gust pushes you a little bit, or you let a wing drop or something, the stall horn goes off and you’ll descend a bit (granted, the stall horn goes off just above actual stall, we can discuss that, but, you get the idea). A touch of power, climb back up the few feet, let the power off again too the point you’re flying level and off you go floating through the sky.
Here, here’s another reason for your “faster than stall” question, as soon as the wheels touch, they create a ton of drag, slow the plane into stall, but you’re wheels are down. If the plane touches down at a speed so far above stall as you suggest, what happens to the plane if you don’t brake? It’ll lift off again. If you brake, you put the wings in stall. The planes that tend to bounce don’t have the brakes of airliners or CJ’s or King Airs, you’re not going to argue with that are you?
Look, I get your point about controlling the plane to the runway… you’re not wrong. I’m not saying stall the thing 5 ft above the runway and fall out of the sky. But, getting the right speed and attitude are critical to the difference between a good landing and floating. It’s a fine line.
Forget to pull out the power all the way on a C-152 and you will float down that runway forever.
Not to mention, GA aircraft like the original poster was asking about are flown quite differently from jet airliners, or even aircraft like the King Air or CJ.
Ultimately, I think you and I are disagreeing about the definition of stall.
Anyway, it’s time for bed. I’d love to hear from a real airline pilot on what I’ve said here.
Too bad that I’ve retired 5 years ago, otherwise you would obviously believe what I wrote.
I believe you then. I told you what my experience was and where I was coming from. I thought it was obvious I was asking you where your experience was.
Do you disagree with my last post?
Tell me about your landing procedure as you touch down in a King Air, a real one?
I’m interested, I don’t know and I have zero experience with it as I said right at the start.
a) No. They need wheel spin up first and/or weight on wheel. Furthermore not all jets have autospoilers and the old airliners didn’t have them either.
Check Air Force One videos. They usually don’t use the auto spoilers and extend them looong after touchdown.
Furhermore spoiler extension on swept wing aircraft tends to induce pitch up!
b) Reverse thrust isn’t a requirement and most of the time you use idle reverse which doesn’t noticeable help slowing the aircraft down.
c) Never. A bounce should immediately trigger a go-around.
d) This makes no sense. Stall is a function of AoA, nothing else and once you are on ground you aren’t flying anymore.
e) No, it simply doesn’t.
f) Again, stall depends only on AoA and has nothing to do with braking.
If you are braking, you aren’t flying anymore so the reference to stall speed doesn’t make sense.
If you touch down with a low enough rate of descend in a CJ or King Air without applying any form of braking, there’s zero reason that the plane should bounce since the speed is continually decreasing.
Look you’re a professional, and I feel bad disagreeing with you. You’ve got a ton more training and experience than me.
But, let’s address your comments.
Regarding your comment about braking. Can a wing stall in a level configuration with the airflow over the wing? IOW, the wing is essentially parallel with the airflow?
Given I want to go to bed, the answer is emphatically yes. In order for a wing to generate lift, the air has to be going fast enough to generate lift. The critical angle of attack varies with airspeed. Are you going to argue with that?
As you land in your jet, at what point in the landing procedure do you transition from, without adding power, a condition from being fast enough to rotate into flight and not, and how do you get to that condtion? (This is a real question. I’m interested in the answer)
If you are not fast enough to rotate into flight, you are not going to fly, am I wrong? Is that not the definition of a stalled condition?
As I said above, I totally get your comment about wanting to maintain powered controlled flight down to touchdown. As I said above, what little I know about it, yes, you fly the plane to the runway in the big iron. You’ve got passengers behind you.
But if you’re in a C-152, if you do not pull out the power before you flair, you will float forever (or you will have to pull the nose up so high you will fall out of the sky… ouch!). I just did it a couple of weeks ago in Warrior for real, it was only at 1200, but, it was enough to keep it going and going. It only took me a second to realize what was going on, but, yeah, I was pretty embarrassed for myself. (I just got back into the cockpit after 19 years of not flying).
Can I fly it to the runway and not bounce? Yes, but, you have to pull out the power immediately or you will bounce, unless you want to land flat and possibly damage your nosewheel. And there’s quite a bit of touch you have to have to do it right that you can’t get in the joysticks and yokes we have today in the sim, especially for people who’ve never flown before.
If you were training a student in a C-152, would you have them level off just above the runway and flair into a landing with the nose up? Or would you tell them to fly it to the runway like in the airliner? Either way can be done. Why do the flair to begin with? What purpose is it other than to increase the AOA and bring the wing into a stalled condition so it can’t fly anymore? Or, rather, the vector of flight will no longer be level but will be at a downwards angle.
Anyway, I look forward to your answer. I don’ think there’s anything else I can say about what I’m trying to say.
a) I don’t understand that one. If the wing is parallel to the airflow the AoA is 0. Hence it can’t be stalled.
b) It’s the other way round. The critical AoA doesn’t change. Exceeding it is the only way to stall a wing.
If you slow down during the flare and you don’t increase the pitch attitude, your plane will descend, but it will not stall.
c) see above
d) You can do that. Most pilots, me included, prefer a flare and a smooth touchdown.
e) Of course. Idle power over the threshold (50ft) or latest in the flare is a must!
That’s valid for almost every aircraft except a few high performance fighters.
f) see above.
g) I’m using a very precise T16000M. No problems with the required tiny/smooth control movements.
I agree that cheap sticky plastic yokes and pedals can cause a lot of trouble.
I’m not suprised about the ever increasing reports of users who are finally able to enjoy MSFS since they have exchanged their old worn out joysticks for new, e.g. hall sensor equipped ones.
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A320 AoA example: approach 6.5°, touchdown 10.5°, stall 20.5°.
So, basically, what I’ve been calling stall, is just loss of enough lift to fly, not actually separation of the airflow from the wing surface. So, I am wrong by definition.
I will still stand by that I have not had an issue with floating with any of the planes I’ve flown in the sim. Granted, I’m just flying them, I’m not paying attention to exact numbers (although that other guy did do the glide test and matched book numbers), so, maybe I’m just using my experience and reference points to get the plane in a position to get it to land as I’d expect it to.
I mean, I am setting the plane up in the same way I fly the same planes in real life, but, I don’t know. I don’t know why I’m not experiencing the floating that some people say they are.
And I have not yet tried to fly anything more than the Seminole or Bonanza with the flight performance mods. And, as I said, I wouldn’t know what I was seeing even if I did fly the King Air. I’d fly it like it was a Cherokee
I will also say I was impressed how much more lifelike the C-152 was with the C-152X mod than the default when it came out. I could fly that right by the numbers.
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I fully agree 
I don’t have any ‘problems’ with floating either, but it’s obvious that e.g. prop drag, especially on constant speed prop equipped aircraft, is missing.
Haven’t done any tests lately, but the lack of prop drag has been, at least previously, masked by using a too high flap drag.
As mentioned before, try landing the TBM or King Air without flaps…
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