I won’t worry to much about the landing physics but and I believe its still a wip. Besides landing the real plane does not even compare to the sim regardless if its X-PLANE or P3D.I get it people want accuracy, not something you’ll get in a computer game 
2 Likes
Since the last update the wheels seem to have some super magnetic property when touching the runway, at least in the Bonanza. There is a very sharp transition between airborne and one wheel touching the ground.
It’s very weird while landing or taking off with a cross wind, the plane will near instantly align / snap to the direction of travel when touching the ground. Same when taking off, as soon as the last wheel leaves the ground the plane will snap to the position it would be in with the crosswind.
It used to be a gradual transition where the wheels slowly gain/lose grip as weight on them increases/decreases. Maybe it was a ‘quick fix’ to reduce bouncing? It’s odd, landing in a crosswind, as soon as one wheel touches, the plane pivots around it as if the wheel connected to a rail.
2 Likes
So some complaining by a developer explains everything? How do you explain the CRJ or rapid and on going improvements to the FBW? Granted they aren’t tail draggers, but sounds to me like AH just needs to learn a new platform or get left in the dust.
1 Like
While getting my PPL I had the great good fortune to be dating a gal who made a living as a crop duster. Her Dad owned the FBO I was flying out of for my training. We would go up for a spin (literally) in the Citabria every weekend. It was fabulous exposure to technique most of us never get to experience. Fond memories… 
3 Likes
Nice to hear the facts from the developers side of the fence.
I really cannot understand why people haven’t worked this obvious state of affairs out for
themselves to be honest.
To this end, since day one, I have been preaching the absurdity of spending cash in the marketplace until the sim is further along the development cycle.
You probably won’t be surprised to learn of the amount of rancour this can engender.
Well, a fool and his money …
2 Likes
Takeoff is twitchy too… if the wind is even moderately strong - say 7-8 kts or more - and even 10-15 degrees off runway heading, the plane wants to weathervane. It can be a challenge to keep the airplane moving in a straight line, even with a good controller.
1 Like
There was mention, by the team, a while back that they were working on the tire friction model. That combined with a reduced ground effect would result in exactly what you describe. While there is still a way to go, what you describe is also far more realistic. There is a very short transition between ground handling and flying. On departure, you achieve flying speed and rotate. The time it takes for the aircraft to separate itself from the earth is exceptionally brief, by design. The last thing we want is to reduce the effective weight of the aircraft during the takeoff roll and start skidding sideways. Lift off and quickly apply X-wind correction to remain aligned with the runway.
There is also the opposite. The heavier the aircraft the more its tolerance to touch down with crab. Large airliners with low slung engines run the risk of ground strike on the nacelle if too much wing low correction is applied to maintain alignment during x-wind landings. A safe wing low component is added to an allowable crab angle at the moment of contact. The weight and momentum of the aircraft will realign the crab to the direction of travel pretty quickly.
If a light GA aircraft has too much crab remaining at touchdown, it is very likely that there will be a moment when the pilot is cracking walnuts trying to stay ON the runway as opposed to aligned with the runway. It is for this reason that aircraft like the Bonanza MUST be landed with the nose wheel clear of the ground and a moment or two allowed to pass before putting it down. This will allow the aircraft to align with the direction of travel, it natural tendency. If the nosewheel makes contact before the alignment the pilot will likely be taking a shortcut to the parallel taxiway.
3 Likes
Everything? No one implied this. The discussion was about taildraggers and groundhandling. No idea why you come up with fbw or the crj…
If you would read the AH text again, maybe you will understand. If not, no problem.
1 Like
That makes me a bit sad. When I did my PPL ride it was a requirement to be able to demonstrate, not only an immediate incipient spin recovery, but also demonstrate recovery on command from the examiner, usually after two or more turns.
During the CPL we had to do the same thing from under the hood with partial panel. The examiner would make some extreme maneuvers while you closed your eyes, put the aircraft in either an incipient spin or slow steep descending turn. “You have control”. Better decide what condition you are in pretty quick, spiral dive develops real quick if you stomp on the rudder and push the nose down, only to find out that you are not entering a spin. 
2 Likes
Try Google or another search engine for help that is readily available to answer all your questions.
1 Like
Same with me… I “got my ticket” in 1978. Man, I did not like that hood!
I learned stall and spin recovery in both the PA-38-112 “Traumahawk” and a 1965 C-150E with that big old straight tail… much easier in the Cessna. Never much cared for the T-tail…
It’s much easier now, the wheels have more connection to the ground, hence the quick re-adjustment when leaving the ground. Before it was a much bigger challenge to take off with cross winds, getting steered into the wind despite full rudder applied. I had to use the ailerons, banking the plane slightly already before take off, not to run off the side of the runway.
@willisxdc Yep it’s with a decent crab angle, one back wheel touches first and the plane pivots. It used to be more gradual, but I have no clue what’s more realistic. It’s easier now to stay on the runway with heavy crosswinds.
I agree. Less challenge, this rail-effect you noticed… I just had a weird ca 15 degrees landing with Kitfox STI, so I landed (ahum) the plane on its front wheels. On this forum I learned you can’t land a tail dragger with vertical speed like that on its front wheels, it will either crash its propellor into the ground, or proceed taking uncontrolled left and right turns with difficult ruddering to keep on track. Kitfox-STI always flipped over. So I always landed Kitfox-STI on the tail wheel, after a very long glide. But this time all of that was not needed ! Kitfox landed like a Cessna 172, I am sure… It felt like the front wheels were powered during landing… I’m not sure how to call it… the tail went down. It does not feel like the old Kitfox STI anymore… So yes I agree, I think it is a bit easier now, but does it hold ? What’s reality ?? Very interesting expert discussion going on in this topic ! As a laptop pilot I’m reading you folks with interest !
It also kinda feels as if the ground effect abruptly ends on touch down. Even turning into a bit of a suction effect. I notice it on take off where it feels a bit like the plane suddenly ‘pops’ off the ground while gradually rotating.
It’s an improvement to before anyway, where I would routinely veer to the side of the runway the plane is pointed in on a crab position landing, defying the direction of travel. Cross wind landings usually ending in a quick steering correction to get the plane to stay on the runway.
With tail draggers, especially the shock ultra, landing is one thing. Then I only have brake on/off mapped and if I don’t pump the brakes it ends up on its propeller. Makes sense, but I don’t have analog brakes doh.
1 Like
On landing I do a “pump brake”, on off on with Kitfox… With Kitfox-STI brakes are risky, they still are, because the plane flips over forward very easily. Before takeoff, if you give Kitfox some throttle with handbrakes on… it will flip over. That still happens, I made the mistake today. And it went fast. Maybe it’s more friction on the wheels introduced ?
Get the FlyingIron Spitfire - and you have a plane that behaves lik a tail dragger should, including all the intertia, p-factor and bouncing.
Please don’t make the mistake to confuse the physics of FS2020 and aircraft that have been dumbed down to be flyable by an inexperienced hobby sim pilot who possibly doesn’t even have rudder pedals.
Yep… there is no transition that I can “feel”… it is very binary… all or nothing.
There does seem to be a mechanic in this sim where even a heavy landing that should properly result in disaster actually fixes itself once on the ground rather than turning into a wing over wing cartwheel. I’ve thrown planes onto the ground fast and heavy and it can feel as if the landing strip just sucks the aircraft down and all is fine.
(all realism settings at most realistic)
That Spitfire still suffers heavily from poor MSFS ground physics (in this case exaggerated crosswind behavior). You have to really use a lot of ailerons even in a mild crosswind (5 knots) to keep the plane level or you end up having a high speed wing strike or at least a wheelie.
My first solo way back on my 16th birthday on 12/26/1964 was in this very airplane, a Piper PA-12 Super Cruiser. That was a great Christmas present. 
You’ve gotta stay ahead of taildraggers or they’ll swap ends with ya on the ground before you know it.
A “wheel landing”, mentioned in an earlier post is in this attitude, generally used when you’ve got a crosswind.
2 Likes