This is a very good sim!

Glad to see some others enjoying the sim. Positivity on this sim is often buried under a rug.Not to say it has its issues.I am learning to grow with and its by far better than what any other sim offered out of the box.

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I don’t think there is that much negativity. There is a lot of criticism, which is a good thing imo. Being an Asobo fanboy is not gonna solve anything, and neither does complaining. The only way to move things forward is by bug reporting and constructive posts, objective testing and reporting like comparing airplane performance versus approved AFM data for example. From a simulation standpoint there is still a long way to go unfortunately, I wish it was as big of a leap forward as the graphics. We need to keep pushing for a better sim. Most fundamental flaws and bug reports get completely buried below eye-candy posts like “we want trains”…

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Yes, agreed. In the history of [home] flight simulation [going all the way back to 1982], we have never seen anything even close to MSFS 2020.

And yet the serial whingers keep on whinging!
They just won’t be told that the sim has to mature - through iteration - to become ever more bug free.

I have come to believe that these people are either ignorant - excusable, Stupid - unfortunate
or have agendas [known only to themselves] - shouldn’t be tolerated!

Sadly, there really is nothing else to be said.

Sim on simmers.

Addendum:
To the righteous and indignant who patiently register their legitimate complaints and requests for bug fixes, I apologize if you feel you have fallen foul of the above definitions.
To the ‘hidden agenda’ boys I say:
Go and immerse your craniums in some kinetically exited hydrogen hydroxide!

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Ignorant. Stupid. Having an agenda. These are not the only motivations for criticism.

Some of us expected a polished product that lived up to the pre release marketing hype.

Some of us expected it to have been tested sufficiently to be bug free on release.

Some of us expected therefore that future patches would incrementally build greater functionality as opposed to fixing bugs.

Does this sound like whining? or is it a rational expectation for a product coming from an experienced game studio with the financial clout of Microsoft behind them.

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Well, I did say SERIAL whingers.
And having read your …moderately toned post, I feel you come outside of my definition.

Regards.

I believe most people “complaining” or “whining” do have an agenda indeed. Namely pushing for a better sim. If your only interest is stunning graphics then congrats, that part is definitely better than anything else on the market. If you are interested in realistic flight simulation, IFR flying, working flight director, an accurate flight and engine model, ability to perform offset LDAs, low visibility take-offs and landings etc. etc. there is a lot of work to be done. Apart from reporting everything to Zendesk, I made a long list of topics (most of which were already available and working in FSX) which are required for accurate flight simulation:

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Very nice reply sir! As you said, we shall sim on.

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If we all have the agenda of seeing this product grow into its potential, then we have more uniting us than dividing us. May we indeed find the most harmonious way of doing so.

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And another moderate reply.
There is hope for this forum yet!

Of course all the points you make are true of every other sim that came before!
Perhaps you too fall outside of my definition.

Regards.

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I understand why passions run high in this community as investing in any flight sim takes a lot of time and money, so users want a product that meets their dreams of an ultra realistic flight experience.

That said it think a lot of the complaint is a bit inconsiderate of amazing and revolutionary achievements this sim has already made.

The other stuff will come. Just learn to enjoy what we have now.

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Wayzegoose

Well said, that man/woman.
And a deal more conciliatory than my earlier post.

Regards.

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Errr, In the light of your replies I have added an addendum to my above original post.
Sorry guys [guys: noun. Informal. Non gender specific].

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I had no real idea what to expect as I have zero previous Sim ( or any game experience for that matter) All I can say as a newbie is that so far I am amazed with the technology. My real world GA experince is close to being matched by the Cessna 152 in the Sim and I am looking forward to learning to fly the Dreamliner.

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Agreed. MSFS is a very good flight simulator, although it’s got several features missing, specially in the IFR and avionics department, and flight model also have issues. It’s got bugs of various kinds in various aspects. @anon50268670 made an excellent compilation of some of these missing issues and bugs and I’d request everyone to vote them up.

But users like me are willing to invest in the meantime, buy some of the addon airports and aircraft, use and enjoy it, report any issues (if found) to the devs, and just enjoy whatever we got. Cause I guess we find it enjoyable in its current state, perhaps? But just cause we enjoy it doesn’t mean the missing features and bugs should be considered to be of low priority, and I hope the developers are aware of that.

Software of such massive scale is incredibly complex (and could get even more complex as more sophisticated features are added in future) and will take time, and hence I guess the developers have been saying from the very beginning things like “The journey has only begun” or “we are gonna support and develop it for 10+ years” or “this is only the beginning of a long journey”. Microsoft and Asobo developers have been very honest about this from the beginning according to my observation. This is an early access model and I did enjoy quite a few early access applications that I truly enjoyed and supported (Pavlov VR for example, which was released back in 2017 and is still early access).

(Honorable mention to Working Title, Pimarc, MrTommy, Kaneron, FlyByWire and any and all third party and community developers who are contributing to MSFS, whether for free or for money. Their contributions make my time in MSFS way more enjoyable than the default offerings do.)

I do enjoy MSFS as a whole in its current state, and so is an unbelievably high number of people, a number that we never had in the past, and we do enjoy the updates, and the improvements that make their way into the sim (trackir, VR, controller sensitivity such as extremity and reactivity options which totally changed aircraft handling for me for the better, and countless other positive things), and if an update introduces new bugs and breaks stuff, some of us get a bit upset, which is normal imo, but that’s how life is, whether we like it or not. Other consumer home desktop flight simulators also have their major share of issues, whether we like it or not. It’s a new normal and we have to accept it, whether we like it or not.

From here on out we only hope for the best for MSFS 2020, and thank the developers at Microsoft and Asobo for achieving the impossible, for daring to attempt to create a realistic representation of the whole world. Not just flight simulation but a world simulation (as told by PMDG’s Robert), in which some astonishing pieces of technology and simulation can be inserted. A whole world, and even a semi-realistic simulation of it, is a giant task, and I thank the development team for accepting the challenge.

P.S. Reposting @anon50268670’s summary for extra visibility, and a request to all to vote them all up:

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This is still very much a game. Made by game developers. It would take a lot of work and 3rd party input to turn it into a real sim. That being said, it is the future. Not XP.

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Let me correct you there all flight sims are games except the level D versions.Whether its P3D or X-PLANE I cannot use any of these sims for actual hands on flying.

This is the type of positive attitude we all need. Thanks for sharing!

NOT really …

Not really, or really not? :thinking::joy:

You are not the only. After few studies of their SDK I think that Asobo have good flight model but wrong data for their aircrafts. As somone here has said earlier, flight model is only that good as data puted into it. We will see if this sim is for “hardcore simmers” after first study level aircraft will show up.

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