Touch panels, iPad, Air Manager, Spacedesk sanity check

BringMeThanos9 · January 20, 2023, 12:44am

PC: i5 13600. 6800XT graphics. 32GB RAM. 65" 4K TV (for now).
1 iPad
1 DIY knobster (parts inbound).
Honeycomb alpha & bravo, logitech rudders

I’ve been reading a lot about how to get an extra display (or 2), touch enabled. I have 1 iPad in hand (OG Air), if I can use that it saves me some $. If the setup works, I’ll go buy a 2nd one off of ebay for cheap.

Goal - right now I’m learning the 172 with G1000. If I could have the displays / soft buttons on the iPads, and knobster for spinning dials, that would rock. It seems like I need Air Manager for the PC, and Air Player for the iPad.

Questions:
Where does Spacedesk come in here - I’m not sure if I’m “ripping” panels off of the PC display, or Air Manager / Air Player will let me directly use native instruments w/o Spacedesk? Or is Spacedesk more flexible for instruments and displays that aren’t in Air Player?
Do I need 2 paid licenses for Air Player for 2 separate iPads? Can Air Player (or Spacedesk??) do the MFD & PFD of a G1000?
If I move up to commercial jets at some point, can the same setup still work well for me?
It seems like at least not that long ago, ripping panels / instruments to an additional monitor was a frame rate hit, what are people’s experiences? Does Air Player native instruments mitigate the frame rate hit?
Any comments, thoughts or suggestions are welcome.

LTMcComb · January 20, 2023, 11:34pm

I use Pop Out Manager. I have three panels and two of them use touch screen monitors. This program works great for me.

Sling380 · January 20, 2023, 11:56pm

Hi,

First thing there is no Air Player for iPad. To get working what you want you will need an iPad app that turns th3 device into an additional windows monitor. There are a few apps that do this of which Spacedesk is one. Most do it wireless but there are some wired ones out there too.You basically popout the displays from the sim and place one each on an iPad screen. The popular option to do this step is POPM (popout panel manager) because it automated the moving and sizing process and adds also adds touch and sim mouse refocus too.
Air Manager is used to display other instruments/controls and the all essential G1000 bezel controls.
Running iPads will have size limitations. I run dual 24” touch displays for my main instrument panel and plan to also add an overhead and pedestal because even what I currently have is not ideal for some aircraft.

BringMeThanos9 · January 21, 2023, 3:02am

OK, so 2 votes for popout manager. So in theory if I have 2 iPads (size notwithstanding) I can throw the Garmin panels onto there & use the knobster (or DIY knobster) to control knobs? I assume I still need Air Player on the PC side…
Do touch screen monitors gain me anything over an iPad other than size?

skypilotYTS · January 21, 2023, 3:14am

Basically, install Space Desk on your SIM PC, and on the iPad(s).

Keep in mind, the older ones are not supported and it will not install

iOS VIEWER on iPhones, iPads and iPod touch
• iOS (> version 9.3)

Once you have that up and running, connect your iPad(s) and through Space Desk, they now act as touch displays.

From there, get Air Manager (have to pay for it if you want to use anything other than the 152 panel). With that, you can get the Bezels for G1000’s, a ton of other instruments and pre made panels. (some are free, some cost money).

I suggest you head over to Simstrumentation’s discord where most of the MSFS Air Manager users hang out. There is always someone around who will help you out.

Next, get Pop Out Manager, this will help automate the panel pop out process (remembers what panels you popped out, what you sized them to and where you placed them).

Again, Simstrumentation Discord will provide guidance on all 3 of these products, we all use them in conjunction with one another daily.

My examples:

CRJ900 - 9 Pop Outs, 2 touch panels, 2 iPads 1 tablet, 2 Knobsters.

Fenix A320 - 7 Pop Outs, 3 Touch panels, 2 iPads, 1 tablet, 2 Knobsters.

Simstrumentation Discord:

Here’s a G1000 example.

Sling380 · January 21, 2023, 7:04am

Not sure where you keep getting this Air Player idea from. You need Air Manager not Air Player for the setup you described.

BringMeThanos9 · January 21, 2023, 12:53pm

Sling - that was a typo / lack of attention on my part, I mean Air Manager on the PC side. Figuring things out as I go a bit

BringMeThanos9 · January 21, 2023, 1:01pm

Thanks for the detailed response - I think I will be hitting the discord as my questions seem to have questions, which have lots of little baby questions running around loose. Your setup there is very impressive, somewhat in the “my wife would kill me” zone but nonetheless impressive. I expect some of this I’ll figure out as I try it.
I see you have a few what I assume are touch screens in addition to the iPads. Plusses and minuses of one over the other? Size is the first & most obvious difference, curious if there’s any others.

Sling380 · January 21, 2023, 1:26pm

No worries. Just didn’t want you ending up with the wrong s/w. See you over on Discord.

BringMeThanos9 · January 22, 2023, 2:45pm

Am I adding complexity by trying to do this on an iPad vs. a basic touch screen monitor? I guess I’d eliminate needing to buy air manager for the iPad. Would I still need popout manager?

Sling380 · January 22, 2023, 8:54pm

Popout Manager I’d consider essential. You don’t need AM for iPad for either setup. The AM iPad app can be considered AM lite hence the reduced price. It doesn’t have all the features of the desktop version and you wouldn’t be able to use popped out instruments or any non app bundled instruments. If you go with iPads they will need to be setup as extra monitors to a desktop machine so essentially they become just like a touch screen monitor. You’ll find the monitors a better bet in the long run but iPads can work.

BringMeThanos9 · January 22, 2023, 10:55pm

OK, so Air Manager on the PC gives me the choice of panels / controls to use with the sim that may not be built in, or space desk lets the iPads run as additional monitors and POM helps with the placement of popouts from the std flight controls on a particular plane?
I have an 2nd small (non touch) monitor on my sim PC, I used the right alt & popped out the PFD (172 / G-1000) and dragged it to that monitor just fine, although none of the soft keys came with it. I assume the goal on a touch screen is to have the soft keys around the border - does Air Manager let me do that?

Sling380 · January 23, 2023, 3:44am

Yep. There are a series of what are called AM overlays. They have a transparent centre to allow the popped out display portion from the sim to show through and all the necessary buttons, knobs etc on the surrounding bezel to enable control. There are overlays around for all the popular avionics including G1000, GTN’s, GNS’s, G3000/5000 and more.

BringMeThanos9 · January 23, 2023, 4:23pm

Thanks. Actually trying some of this stuff helps with figuring out which software does which range of things. I installed space desk, set up my iPad as an additional monitor and dragged the PFD over to that. I can see the point about that being a bit small but I’ll probably give it a shot with Air Manager before I splurge for a pair of touch screens. I’ve got the Arduino and the DIY knobster inbound currently.

Hopefully this thread helps someone else in the future, or maybe the older threads were useful and I was being thick

JPVann9916 · January 24, 2023, 12:00am

Hi - I was where you are at six months ago - got hooked on MSFs and only had an old joystick. Quickly changed everything to match my learning.

Got pedals, two new sticks, Alpha and Bravo. Had an iPad, old Android tablet and old phone - all used now with PopOutManager and AirManager.
Quickly realized I needed an easy way to control flight - now have a VKB FSM module ($99) - a full autopilot and VNAV controller. They also sell very reasonably priced throttles and control modules. GNX FSM-GA (Front Switchboard Module – General Aviation) – VKBcontrollers.com
Check out Class Echo Mobile on iPad - full flight control program for $19
Bought Air Manager and Knobster, use free Spacedesk to auto load my panels on the iPads.

This setup will handle most every commercial and GA plane out there, including big airliners. I mix and match depending on what I’m doing but end result is a few minutes of setup and I have a full featured glass cockpit aircraft with all essential items mapped to buttons. Very satisfying and relatively easy.

Latka · January 24, 2023, 12:10am

Get your kids hooked on flight sims and they won’t have the money for drugs.

You guys have some seriously nice setups! I’m just a baby with three monitors right now!

BringMeThanos9 · January 24, 2023, 2:20am

I’ve heard about spad.next a bit, but I’m not that familiar with it. Does it do anything similar to air manager or…?

Also it seems like the GNX module you linked is very nice but redundant with the bravo and/or G1000 or similar popouts?

JPVann9916 · January 24, 2023, 3:36am

Spad.next is utility software that gets between devices and the simulation and lets you do things - complex things - you cant do in the sim itself. Including multiple uses for same switch, conditions, detents, scripts, long vs short press, and much much more.

The VKB autopilot box is nice just to have buttons at hand.

SpringyCoder440 · August 14, 2023, 5:11pm

Will Popout manager help me to pop out the PFD and MFD from C172 to Air Manager? I’m using Touch Portal with Max Paperno’s msfs2020 app and I’d like to do this without the keyboard using TP’s virtual key press, but it doesn’t seem to work for me, all it offers is “Ctrl + Alt” and not just the Alt Gr key.
Thanks in advance for any advice.

Sling380 · August 14, 2023, 9:50pm

That’s the main function of POPM besides the fact that it also enables touch support and mouse refocus.