Trim control 2023

User Support Hub Aircraft & Systems
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1

Hi,

I originally posted this query under another topic, but I see it as such a huge issue that I’m creating a new topic for it…because I genuinely cannot believe this is the current state of MSFS… I must be doing something wrong.

My Trim doesn’t work as I’d expect (C152, DA40 for example), whether using default keyboard, or bound to hotas buttons. (PC version, no add-ons, latest build)

When I press and hold trim up/down, I see an initial microscopic movement on the trim wheel, then a delay of about half a second, and then a continuous movement. I’d expect an immediate continuous movement of the trim (and trim wheel) when the button is pressed and held. (This happens using default keyboard controls - so not hotas related).

Currently, it’s exactly the same input as you’d see when typing on a keyboard - if you hold down the F key you get F then a small delay then FFFFFFF… And my trim in MSFS behaves the same. The trim wheel should move continuously as soon as you press and hold the input, and stop when input is released.

(I’m a CPL, with 30 years flying and 30 years of flight sims - so I understand what should be happening with Trim).

I see other forums where there seems to be a general acceptance of poor trim control in MSFS (though I cannot see comments on my issue specifically). But if I’m not alone in the control issue above, then I just can’t understand how the community would accept this. It would be like having a driving game where you can’t turn left…developers have been making the graphics pretty for a few years and they’ll get back to the ‘purists’ requested feature of wanting the car to turn in both directions. It’s totally nuts.

Trim is an absolute integral part of the basics of flying - stick, rudder, throttle, trim; If one of these doesn’t work in the sim, then the sim doesn’t work.

Please someone tell my I’m doing something wrong, and there’s a solution to this issue?

Thanks

1 Like
2

Hello!

Your topic has been moved into the Community Support category.

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3

Agreed. AI Auto Trim needs fixing ASAP - none of the assistance options work!

4

It’s been this way in the past several iterations of the sim and it’s likely part of the port-over of several old features. IIRC, in FSX and even P3D, when assigning a button press to controls you could select whether it was repeatable if you held the button down, and there were three selections - non, repeatable, mid, and fully. I think fully was what you desire - instantly and infinitely repeatable.

But the old mid setting did what is doing now, which is you hold the button down, it gives you a single press, a short delay, then fully repeating. Almost like an “are you sure?” And there is no repeatability slider in the control setup like in the old iterations.

I may be remembering the finer details wrong, but I agree - I’d like to see that be an option. Now, the speed at which the electric trim works is another story as I’m not sure how that’s modeled between each aircraft. Right now it’s most likely “increase trim by one unit” per button press (including repeats) versus “activate up trim motor.” I just treat it like a quirky, different aircraft, as I often do when there is a discrepancy between real life and the sim.

5

Wow - so it’s not just me!?

I cannot believe that any flight sim post 1995 would have these types of control inputs.

Thanks, I’ll log it back in the bug section.

2 Likes
6

I think you can use SPAD.next to overcome this (if you’re on PC).

However, I don’t think it‘ll be classifiable as a bug. I ran into that when I started doing wishlist stuff as well.

7

If you go on Etsy and search “usb trim wheel” you’ll find several hardware solutions. Since I got one my trimming has been so much smoother and easier.

8

This really shouldn’t be necessary.
Most of these aircraft irl have a trim button on the yoke - a two way hat switch - and that’s what MSFS should be modeling. And it should work the same as the aircraft.

3 Likes
9

They should model the trim clutch switch while we’re at it.

1 Like
10

Since we don’t have force feedback, trimming is always going to be subpar on the sim. It’s backwards. Normally, one trims until the pressure is relieved on the yoke or pedals. In the sim, you have to trim, and then release pressure on the yoke as the trim takes effect until you are back to center on your yoke travel. It’s a very awkward process. It’s made worse by not being able to tell how much trim you are putting in and the fact the electronic trim is very slow (and apparently uneven as described here).

Many real world aircraft do have electronic trim toggle switches on the yoke. No pilot I flew with ever used it except maybe for minor adjustments. We always used the actual trim wheel that was down alongside our seat. It was much faster and more precise. It also had a white mark on it to line it up with center. You always checked that as part of your preflight checks.

My request would be more of a ‘force trim’ setting a bit like we had in Sikorsky helicopters. Push the button, and the trim would jump to your current position. If we had something like that in MSFS, then it would help. Press the button, it will center the control forces, and you just move the yoke back to center. Done.

11

Once aircraft start getting bigger than say a Cessna 172, the trim forces can be excessive. A low level go around in an old twin I used to fly often required both hands on the yoke for a few seconds just to hold the nose down while waiting for the trim to catch up. The forces involved were surprisingly unsettling (even if you had been working out at the gym). So electronic trim can become a necessity.

With greater weight, the amount of travel (i.e. handfuls of trim wheel you need to spin manually) is greater also, so it would take a (relatively) long time to trim manually on a wheel when out of trim.

Once aircraft start getting complex, it becomes even more important. In a busy situation such as an engine failure after takeoff when flying multi-engine as single pilot, your other hand is generally working flat out on other controls (throttles, then rpm, then mixtures, gear, flaps, then fuel pumps, then fuel shut-off, then magnetos, then cowl flaps, then rudder trim). Your right hand hasn’t much time for 5-6 turns of an elevator trim wheel in amongst all this, so again electronic trim becomes a necessity. (It’s why the switch is on the left hand side of the PIC yoke, so your right hand can stay busy doing all the things which will save your life).

On a single engine Cessna, yeah I’d use the wheel; but not on anything bigger or more complex.

The only time I remember using the Trim Wheel after moving to multi-engine aircraft is a simulated trim-runaway, where you physically grab the wheel to stop it turning because the electric trim has gone haywire.

For a simulator, whether using the wheel or the button, the solution (to my problem at least) is simply a ‘continuous’ trim input (on all trim control surfaces), rather than a stop/pause/start input.

12

You may consider this mod if you would like to have more natural trimming for small GA plane:

13

In regards to trim I am using a thing called Authentikit. Works very well with my Bravo.
It is free and the attached video shows how it works and how to set it up.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sx6KJ0dEtus

2 Likes
14

I really cannot believe this is not fixed yet. Press and hold Trim up/down on hotas or keyboard and you get tiny trim movement then pause then continual movement. That’s not how trim works. How can anyone use this simulator like this?

Am I missing something? Have you all figured out a way to overcome this? (I’m just talking about basic button inputs from keyboard or joystick…not trim wheel integration).

15

I use analog (axis) trim whenever I can, though unfortunately this only works for elevator trim, since the rudder and aileron trim axis commands do nothing. Everywhere you turn in this sim…

For planes with digital trim or if I want to use a trim hat, I just…deal with this behavior. Trim wonkiness is definitely one of the top annoyances if you’re doing anything off-autopilot in this sim. Its not just the keyboard-like stutter, but also that trim sensitivity is wildly different in different planes, and not just third-party ones.

IIRC, they actually fixed this at one point, but it broke the honeycomb bravo, which was designed to work around their broken sim, so they set it back, and now it’s broken for everyone else again.

16

I use a Honeycomb Bravo, and it absolutely doesn’t work. Using the switch on the yoke (a Honeycomb Alpha, FWIW) results in the same behavior described here, but so does continuously rolling the trim wheel. Apparently even repeatedly pressing a button (which is what the trim wheel effectively does as you rotate it) rapidly enough is treated the same as holding the button. I just tried the sim for the first time and was quite amazed that neither of my trim controls actually work properly.

17

You can. But lots of people don’t want to use 3rd party software to fix problems that Microsobo should fix.

For the record, you bind ‘Elevator Trim Position’ to the trim wheel (which is really two buttons, and not an axis.) That variable is in radians, so you increment and decrement the button presses using something like .003 radians per press.

That gives you a very smooth and granular trim.

18

Yep, I agree they should fix it, just giving other options for folks who want to address it in the interim.

1 Like
19

Understood and agreed. That’s why I listed the events in SPAD to use with the Bravo (which should be applicable to other controllers.)

I wouldn’t fly without SPAD. Many others either don’t want to spend the money, or take on the considerable learning curve needed to make it (or A&O) sing.

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Just want to clarify that your opinion is NOT a fact. I have very good trim control with the HC Alpha trim control switch for gross changes and the Bravo trim wheel for finer changes. This is true with all aircraft and works extremely well with default settings, no Spad or A&O’s required.