Troubleshooting scenery stutters on high-end hardware (RTX 4090 / 5900X / Reverb G2)

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Yes I’ve been using it since it first appeared, but after reinstalling back to Win10, doing a fresh install of the sim and trying the high resolution OXR + DLSS I haven’t reinstalled it.

I made a straightforward purely technical argument for not doing so without any malice - and I’m happy to be at a point now to not have to introduce another element that may require babysitting when things change with the sim or with the OS.

Not intense, all good discussion that is hopefully useful to folks who are as passionate about reaching a stable, clear experience in VR with this sim.

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@SimonJones7660

Hi, I don’t wish to de-rail this thread but may I briefly confirm if you’re using a Reverb G2?

I have very similar PC specs and also use an RTX 3070. I’ve read some of your comments and it sounds like you’re now getting great results in VR and are very happy at the moment. I currently use a Quest 2 and I’m very happy with it, however, I also find myself thinking about possibly getting a G2 for Christmas.

In the Quest 2, I like that I can cap my FPS at 40 and use 80Hz mode, which makes it smooth without ASW. I’m very sensitive to horizon flicker at low frame rates, which thankfully I don’t get with this setup. I’m a bit worried that a G2 won’t be smooth with an RTX 3070 but it sounds like you’re happy with the performance and clarity?

Thanks,

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Since switching to the 4090, I have also deactivated the toolkit. It runs better without, especially without FFR, since the GPU is otherwise understrained. The 4090 reacts a bit strangely of this. Ok, color settings etc. don’t interest me because I have that in the driver of my HMD (Pimax). Before the 4090, however, I loved the toolkit.

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Yes, I was, and sorry for going down the rabbit hole on that topic. You are correct, TAA 100% is the best for reading instruments. I realized the motion artifacts I was getting in the G2 where from panning too quickly. They are similar to the ripping of textures when you disable Vsync in 2D. With MR disabled, you just have to adjust to them by panning slower and learning to live with the odd ripple.

The way the Toolkit works, and I think DLSS does the same thing, is they create a fake buffer that the Sim thinks it is writing to, but instead the software writes to a smaller buffer and passes the result through filters. It does not render twice or waste resources by scaling twice. That’s my understanding.

I have added Foveated Rendering to my testing with TAA and 100% since my G2 supports it. That is the only Toolkit feature I have enabled right now. And, I have put all my WMR settings back to Best Quality. I figure you need to start out with the sharpest image you can get, and then try not to lose sharpness with too much AA or sharpening.

I’ll give Turbo mode another try shortly. I was getting some CTD’s changing the settings up so much without restarting everything.

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There’s NO such thing in msfs as an “understrained gpu” lol. Why not gain more gpu headroom (with the toolkit) and instead increase the resolution even more? There’s no such thing as max supersampling. If i could raise that pecker to 50000x50000 i would :smiley:

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Are you using a 4090?

It doesn’t need GPU headroom at the moment because there is a CPU bottleneck (with every current CPU). So why burden the CPU with another factor?

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Hi, yes I’m using the G2. I upgraded from a Rift S a couple of years ago.

I’ll be 100% honest with you, ASW smoothing is better than the Microsoft equivalent by a significant margin. That has been a real issue for me and I have finally decided to give up on it for the time being.

However the thing that has changed everything for the better is the high (I would say 120%+ OXR resolution) couple with the new Nvidia DLSS option.

DLSS is doing something else somewhat as a side effect that really smooths things out visually.

I cannot stand any jerkiness or clunkiness and I have to say I am super happy with how it is right now. A little jerky during taxi but holy smokes everything else is pretty great.

It’s not 80hz ASW smooth but it isn’t annoying and doesn’t feel like it’s strugging. I can feel the aircraft, I can feel the environment, I am getting the subtle visual cues from the wind.

Hope this is useful!

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Yes - very useful, cheers thanks for that. Much appreciated.

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This is true. I had Rift S before, and motion artifacts were never as noticeable. That said, WMR motion artifacts got much worse lately with my 4090, not sure why - it’s not the actual 4090 that’s at fault, I think, but latest WMR runtimes or something to do with MSFS itself… However @mbuccia has shown videos with a major MR updates coming to WMR OXR runtime. There are no release date, but it’s coming. The clips were impressive. I hope this will bring WMR motion reprojection or possibly even better than ASW.

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Where’s this preview video of the new WMR OXR runtime? :slight_smile: Thanks

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The first video fix would work on all cards. You can see in the second video the motion artifacts are virtually eliminated. The combined fix showed there would only work on RTX cards (NVidia 30xx and 40xx series).

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They’re some people here who have about the same setup as I have (5800X3D RTX 4090 Reverb G2)

Would one of you mind sharing your exact settings for MSFS, NVidia and OpenXR ?
I’ve bin having trouble with MSFS since the SU11 update and the only thing that’s gonna start flying is my setup.

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What kind of trouble? Stutters? I dont have a 5800x3D but will get the 7800x3D

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I just swapped out my 5950x for a 5800x3D paired with a 4090 and a Reverb G2. It’s been a journey and I was surprised by the results. First of all, depending on your own rig and how you have it tuned.. if you’re more or less in balance between your CPU and GPU.. or slightly GPU bound most of the time, you will not see a huge FPS improvement when switching to a 5800x3D. You will see it in the numbers if you aren’t running Motion Reprojection. 3-5FPS and sometimes I saw 10. But where MR is concerned, it wasn’t enough to get me from 30FPS locked to 45FPS with the G2.

When properly tweaked and/or overclocked, the 5900x and the 5950x processors are actually really really good for the most part. One thing @RomanDesign should try that I sort of discovered 3 days before I got my 5800x3D was a HUGE performance improvement where it relates to stutters, by turning off SMT (hyper threading) and doing an ALL-CORE lock of the clock frequency. I was doing PBO boosts up to 5Ghz with my 5950x and it seems the frequency swings cause stutters with MSFS, whereas a stable clock frequency across all cores nearly eliminated a good portion of my stutters. They didn’t disappear in all cases, but suddenly JFK, Haneda, Vegas, and LAX were smooth transitioning in and out of the airspace. And a lot of times, I could maintain 30FPS in MR in these areas. With my 5950x I turned off SMT, which brought me from 32 cores to 16, and did an all-core overclock @ 4.45 GhZ. You will need to do some research and YouTube watching with your motherboard/BIOS to understand how to do this, but it worked so well.. I ALMOST regret purchasing the 5800x3D.

With the 5800x3D the stutters returned to where I was with my 5950x with PBO enabled. This was so disheartening, until I also disabled SMT with the 5800x3D, and downloaded a software tool for windows called “PBO2 Tuner” which allows you to do a CO -30 across all cores and even lower your PPT/TDC/EDC limits. Essentially undervolting it, to give head room for higher clock boosts. This is the only thing you can really do with this CPU as the multiplier is locked and you can’t traditionally overclock it. However, using this PBO2 Tuner tool works extremely well.. and was able to once again see all cores boost on their own to 4.45 Ghz while benchmarking AND playing MSFS. With these cores boosting and staying around that clock frequency, I once again was able to see improvements with the stutters. So performance is back to where I had it, and the frame times (latency) is better… so while the actual FPS is still similar, there’s just a “smoothness” to things that I haven’t really seen before. Including panning the camera or when pirouetting with a helicopter for example..

I recommend with the 5800x3D and the 4090 that you super sample in OXR by dragging the slider to 180% (you can do 200 but there are diminishing returns), use DLSS Quality in MSFS. Use MSFS sharpening at 100, and use 100 CAS sharpening in OXR Toolkit. Use DX11 with HAGS enabled. Set everything to Ultra. Max out literally every setting, EXCEPT for TLOD and OLOD. Set your TLOD to around 130 and OLOD to 150. Use motion reprojection Unlocked (or Default), and if you DON’T use Motion Reprojection, frame limit it to 45 FPS using OXR Toolkit as this provides a smoother experience as it’s half the rate of the G2 90hz.

System Specs:
Asus ROG Dark Hero Viii Motherboard
AMD Ryzen 7 5800x3D PBO Tuner2: CO -30 all cores, PPT=120, TDC=90, EDC=120 (anything lower introduces clock stretching)
32GB PC3600 Mem DOCP/XMP Enabled
2TB Samsung 9800 PRO NVMe SSD
Gigabyte Gaming OC 4090 (Undervolt 2,745Mhz @ .960 +1,700 mem clock)
HP Reverb G2
Thrustmaster HOTAS and Pedals
ButtKicker Gaming Plus

NVCP Settings:
Ambient Occlusion = OFF
FXAA = OFF
Anti-Aliasing Gamma Correction = OFF
Maximum Pre-Rendered Frames = 1 (Or Application Controlled)
Power Management Mode = Prefer Maximum Performance
Anisotropic Sample Optimization = OFF
Texture Filtering Negative LOD Bias = Allow
Texture Filtering - Quality = High Performance
Trilinear Optimization = OFF
Thread Optimization = OFF
Vertical Sync = ON
Low Latency Mode = ULTRA

MSFS settings:
DX11 Enabled. (DX12 still has an FPS hit and introduces some wobbles with MR)
ULTRA settings, everything maxed, 350GB rolling cache, Real-time air traffic off
VSYNC in MSFS OFF
OpenXR 200% (4400x4404) or 180% for headroom, DLSS Quality, TLOD 130, OLOD 150
OpenXR Toolkit Motion Reprojection Enabled (UNLOCKED)
Fixed Foveated Rendering Quality (Wide) Preset
MSFS CAS Sharpening Slider at 100
OpenXR Toolkit FSR Upscaler Disabled, using CAS Sharpness 100%
Turbo Mode Disabled
HAM Masking Disabled

System Tweaks:
Hyperthreading and Virtualization Disabled
Resizable Bar Enabled
PCIE in BIOS forced to Gen4
NDU Registry Hack
MSI Utility v3 to set Interrupt Priority on GPU to High
HPET Disabled
HAGS Enabled
STOP NVIDIA Services, disable GeForce Experience. (Gives a 10FPS boost)
XBOX Gamebar Task killed
Steam Overlay Disabled for MSFS

And that’s about it. So far I’m very pleased. And there is nothing else I can really do.. at least until the 7x3D series comes out.

edits: Added my settings for you all to see.

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178

Stutters, CTD’s, graphics that go from perfect in one flight to horrible the next.

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179

Thank you, thank you, thank you :partying_face:

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Sorry, me again.
So I’m implementing your settings : with NVCP Abient Occlusion blankend out, says this is not supported for this program.

This is with the latest Nvidia driver, the one released yesterday.
Do you have any idea why this can’t be changed ?

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I might have had that setting on there when I once had my settings on the Global configuration in NVCP. If you’re doing this on the MSFS profile (which you should be) and it says it’s not supported, then don’t worry about it! You should be good to go.

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Thanks a lot for the write-up. This part is really interesting. My SMT os already off, but I never tried locking the cores OC. I’ll have to google how to do it properly. Do you mean the clock is not even changing, are all cores running idle at 4.45? Or Are they jumping to 4.45 under any load, but idle lower?

I’m waiting for 7xxxX3D to be released, hopefully soon. It should be even better than 5800X3D, but everything should still apply to it, and until then I need to get my 5900X a run for its money…

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Effective clocks using multiplier. Not boost clocks or PBO. My effective (base) clock rate reported in windows was 4.45 Ghz across 16 cores (even at idle). With PBO you can boost a single core clock up to 5Ghz (with a 5950x for example) but you will only do this on a couple cores at a time intermittently. This is great for single core loads, which you would think is great for MSFS. But MSFS does use at least 4 cores, and I have a theory that stutters occur more frequently with sporadic boost frequencies.

My motherboard has an OC switcher where it runs PBO under single core loads, but switches to an all clock multiplier for all core loads when the CPU is hit with multi-threaded work loads. The trigger for this is amps, so I had it configured to switch from PBO boosting (up to 5Ghz single core) to all core 44.45 Ghz all-core when amps exceeded 72A. To do a quick test, I just set this to 1 to force a 44.45 multiplier all core, and immediately noticed a substantial improvement with stutters. Particularly around airports.

The thing you LOSE with an all-core effective clock rate, is the ability to boost single core speeds a lot higher than you can get with an all-core. So there’s a trade off. That’s the cool part about the Dark Hero motherboard.. I don’t know of any other boards that can dynamically switch like this one can. I could do a benchmark with single core loads and get single core scores. Or I could load up Cinebench and bench heavy multi-threaded work loads and get great multi-threaded scores. The board took care of it for me. But don’t worry about that part, as the switcher means nothing with MSFS. You can achieve all core boost clocks by adjusting your multiplier but you will need to pay attention to your voltages too.

Strongly urge you to read up and watch videos with your hardware/motherboard/BIOS configuration if you go down this road. This isn’t a project for everybody. Overclocking and tweaking a CPU from stock can cause instabilities with MSFS (or anything really) which is why you have to spend a LOT of time benchmarking, stress testing, and ensuring system stability. It can be done though. I have done it, and never have CTDs.

Disclaimer: I am not advocating for people on this forum to overclock. It’s not for the average joe to go poking around the BIOS and arbitrarily screwing with things. Even Asobo recommends not doing it because there are lot of people who haven’t learned enough or have experience with it to do it properly, leading to all sorts of tickets and complaints of crashing in these forums and else-where.